One Last Roll of the Dice

[Meiz]

Yep, it's 3 turns of anarchy, but we can change two civics for the same cost. But I don't think we should do that just yet.

I'm going to throw this suggestion in the air again... How about we use the GS and GM for a golden age right now and make the civic switch? Marseilles can hire two more merchants after grocier (and two artists if we build theathre next), so we should be able to generate more GP's for another golden age later. And we can get Spy from Communism (and scientist from Physics, if needed). Maybe, that is...

We could then build partially rushed SoL in Paris while under Bureaurcracy + golden age and make switch to Free Speech at the end of ga. State Property switch could be done in the next GA (For this game State Property will be overpowering, due to number of our current and future cities). I'm still not sure if Universal Suffrage is worth switching to, especially if we go for Biology and most likely run a lot of specialists anyway. Well, Kremlin and rush buying has it's mertits...

Regarding Biology, we have a lot of farms and we are not going to replace them all with cottages. Our cities are well under happy cap, so I still think researching Biology is the right step. Especially when we need Scientific Method, so Biology is only one tech divertion...

I'm certain we could kill / vassalize Mehmed quite easily before destroyers. All we need to do is take his mainland cities and then transport troops to his another continent from his ex-capital with galleons, if needed.

My vote for techpath: Corporations -> SM -> Communism -> Biology -> RP -> Rifling -> Kill Mehmed. And Physics if we go with my golden age suggestion and need desperately another scientist.

 

[Cam_H]

Three turns of Anarchy? OK ... a Golden Age is starting to look like a good idea again! Our main civic swap will be Slavery > Emancipation, but maybe Bureaucracy > Free Speech at the tail of the Golden Age has merit. I know there's some mechanic about which Great People get burned when we have an excess, but please try to avoid inadvertently burning our Great Engineer! Marseilles, Paris, and Lyons should emphasise production during the Golden Age to bring forward our opportunity for a fourth Golden Age. One idea might be to go into Christian Pacifism just through the Golden Age before returning to Free Religion.

I share Admiral's concern that we're starting to get off the proposed pathway of getting to Infantry and Destroyers as promptly as possible. I'd be satisfied if we went for Democracy, then Corporation (Wall Street), and maybe plough several turns into Scientific Method if we want to compete for Great Spy / Kremlin (while following Spain's and Ottoman's progress towards Communism), or just head for Rifling or Railroad otherwise.

I'm feeling that you guys would like to take those four Ottoman cities with Rifles and Cannons. I'm 'OK' with that, but I'm slightly worried that we might somewhat needlessly put the rest of our empire in danger by provoking an anti-French dogpile.

 

[Meiz]

I know there's some mechanic about which Great People get burned when we have an excess, but please try to avoid inadvertently burning our Great Engineer!

I seem to recall that you need to group the wanted GP's together (by pressing shift I think).

Marseilles, Paris, and Lyons should emphasise production during the Golden Age to bring forward our opportunity for a fourth Golden Age. One idea might be to go into Christian Pacifism just through the Golden Age before returning to Free Religion.

That's fine during the ga, as long as we remember to switch back. Golden age also increases gp points, so I don't see a problem for generating enough gp's. As long as they are mixed of course...

I'm feeling that you guys would like to take those four Ottoman cities with Rifles and Cannons. I'm 'OK' with that, but I'm slightly worried that we might somewhat needlessly put the rest of our empire in danger by provoking an anti-French dogpile.

I've noticed that bribed AI's don't actually go to "war mode", so in that case I don't expect any huge stacks on our continent. At least nothing that the rifles couldn't handle. Our seafood might be in danger however, but that's the prize I would be willing to pay for killing or vassalazing Ottomans.

 

[Cam_H]

Just on The Great Engineer and the Golden Age;

The GPs used for a golden age are:

-The one you used to start it and the closest ones needed to start it

-In case of a tie between two or more, the game choose randomly between them

So, a good way of choosing the GP for the golden age is to join the ones you want to use on the same tile. Selecting them as a group is not strictly needed

 

[grandad1982]

Wouldn't worry about the GEng ass I'll wait till he's burnt on SoL before I torch the GA.

So are we saying SM after Corp? I think I'd rather go RP > Rifles before SM (want to be able to build Christian Monastarys in all our cities if possible).

I think Mehmed would fold if we take his mainland cities. I'll trade for Astro and get some galleons going. If Mehmed does fold then we can finish of Sury and Mansa with these Galleons whilst preparing for a more major war.

I think I understand the plan so will play tonight. Hopefully.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Good arguments on all points.

I see the point for Bio if we're not going to "cottage up" too much. It will be nice to keep popping GPs.

Good note on the mechanics of the GA. Thanks.

As long as we keep building muskets, we should have enough to beat down any invasions from the AI.

Have fun GD!

 

[Cam_H]

My two cents ...

So are we saying SM after Corp? I think I'd rather go RP > Rifles before SM (want to be able to build Christian Monastarys in all our cities if possible).

Once again, I'm happy enough to go with the group's decision, but I'd research all except one turn of Scientific Method. If Isabella or Mehmed get to a position where they're capable of researching Communism, then I'd race them for it. Otherwise, keep heading towards Combustion / Assembly Line.

I think Mehmed would fold if we take his mainland cities. I'll trade for Astro and get some galleons going. If Mehmed does fold then we can finish of Sury and Mansa with these Galleons whilst preparing for a more major war.

Again, you guys seem a lot more enthusiastic about all of this than myself. I don't know if he'll fold or not given we'll be taking less than one-third of his cities. We'll end up fighting Spain again, and our yet-to-be-built wooden boats will be vulnerable. What for? Four cities we can easily take later, or some weak vassals that likewise we can get later? Anyway, as before, I'll go along with it, but I'm unsure if it's the right move.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Once again, I'm happy enough to go with the group's decision, but I'd research all except one turn of Scientific Method. If Isabella or Mehmed get to a position where they're capable of researching Communism, then I'd race them for it. Otherwise, keep heading towards Combustion / Assembly Line.

I'm good with that too.

Again, you guys seem a lot more enthusiastic about all of this than myself. I don't know if he'll fold or not given we'll be taking less than one-third of his cities. We'll end up fighting Spain again, and our yet-to-be-built wooden boats will be vulnerable. What for? Four cities we can easily take later, or some weak vassals that likewise we can get later? Anyway, as before, I'll go along with it, but I'm unsure if it's the right move.

Cam, I'm not sure he'll fold (become our vassal). I'm also not sure it's the right move, but I don't see it causing any long term harm. At worst case, the war goes for 20-30 turns as a dogpile against us. As long as we keep a rapid response force in 3 or 4 cities, we don't have anything to worry about other than losing some seafood. In the short turn (the next 50 turns or so), I'm not worried about having our navy sunk. I'm probably overconfident, but I see making vassals of Mansu, Sury and Mehmed as something to be done as a sideshow to the invasion of Wang.

More later, but we may wish to consider razing the AP city. I need to go back and look at the save.

I share Admiral's concern that we're starting to get off the proposed pathway of getting to Infantry and Destroyers as promptly as possible. I'd be satisfied if we went for Democracy, then Corporation (Wall Street), and maybe plough several turns into Scientific Method if we want to compete for Great Spy / Kremlin (while following Spain's and Ottoman's progress towards Communism), or just head for Rifling or Railroad otherwise.

I like this path.

I'm with Cam in that I'm flexible with the group decision. Can play it multiple ways.

<put's on 's advocate hat again> when do we slot in flight?

If y'all haven't figured it out I'm much more comfortable with this now that we're getting out of slavery.

 

[Cam_H]

I'm pleased you're comfortable!

If it gets to the point where we're considering Flight, we've not done our job very well.

 

[Meiz]

Cam, I'm not sure he'll fold (become our vassal). I'm also not sure it's the right move, but I don't see it causing any long term harm. At worst case, the war goes for 20-30 turns as a dogpile against us. As long as we keep a rapid response force in 3 or 4 cities, we don't have anything to worry about other than losing some seafood. In the short turn (the next 50 turns or so), I'm not worried about having our navy sunk. I'm probably overconfident, but I see making vassals of Mansu, Sury and Mehmed as something to be done as a sideshow to the invasion of Wang.

My thoughts as well, exept I'd just kill Sury if it's easily doable. We don't need much more than 3-4 galleons to transport troops to Mehmed's other island and we can easily keep our ships safe inside cities.

Ok, there's also another thing that motivates me... Sure, we could play it really safe, but that's just dull

 

[grandad1982]

So I didn't play (affairs of the heart intervened).

I'm glad I haven't played as it seems there is still some solid discustion to take part in.

So taking the proposed tech route of Demo > Corp > SciMeth (-1turn) > run up to infantary etc. This says to me that we might as well wait till we're ready to take Issy as well as Mehmed before launching any major attacks. I do think that destroying Sury would be an ok time filler as it would only need a few galleons to get to his Islands and only one of the cities is worth keeping. As for Mansa I guess he can wait till a later date.

One thing that looking to SciMeth does is increase the importance of spreading religions. This leads to the question do we bother with Hinduism? I'd be inclined to say yes if the next GP is a GProth but otherwise I think it could be a waste of hammers when we could be finishing the Christian spread.

 

[Cam_H]

Next Great Prophet will be burned at the stake ... and turn a nice shade of Gold.

Vassalising Suryavarman and Mansa Musa is fine by me. We'll be unpopular ... but we're French! (Where's Cabert when I need him??).

 

[grandad1982]

I think totally getting rid of Sury is as easy as Vassilising him. As I said before he has one city we can keep and the other 2/3(?) can be razed no problems.

So after this crop of GPs are gone are all new GP going for another GA? Seems sensible to me.

I'll play on sunday morning now. Again I'm really sorry for the delay in play time.

 

[grandad1982]

Ok so I've played a few turns and have kicked off the GA. Am I ment to be in Pacifism till the end of the GA?

If your wondering our navy is starting to grow so we can finish of Sury and look to Mehmed....

Will play the last turns tomorrow.

 

[Cam_H]

It was a suggestion to go into Christian Pacifism during the Golden Age for +200% points in our cities, but most notably Marseilles, Paris, and Lyons where we'll pop our next self-grown Great People - so maximum specialists in these cities. Meiz noted that we should be shooting for different types of Great People, and therefore maybe going into Caste during this Golden Age so one could run Merchants, one Artists, and one Scientists might improve our chances there?

This is all just a proposal, and possibly 'overkill' in terms of saving a period of protracted anarchy later on.

 

[grandad1982]

PFT

I switch Kumbri to a Drydock.

Makwe the Astro trade with Churchill

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

1

IBT Churchill demands Steel. I say no.
IBT Izzy demands we switch to a Theocracy. I politly decline.

Paris gets the first Salon.
Vandal starts a naval push and a Drydock is started.

2

IBT Mansa makes a demand for Eco. I say no thanks.

Spoiler :

3

Not much of note this turn.

4

Marse gets a Theatre so I can run Artists if it wants to.

5

Demo > Corp

Spoiler :

Heres a random screen of part Churchills navy.

Spoiler :

6

We start our navy with a Frigate in Vandal.

Spoiler :

7

Paris, Salon > SoL. I burn the GEng on SoL then burn the remaing GP on a GA!

The slavery that has supported our empire ends in a flurry of whipping which lead to an historic Emancipation movement.

Spoiler :

Sadly I forgot the Pacifism thing and never made the switch. Sorry.

8

lalalalalalala.

9

Corp > SciMeth

Spoiler :

10

Zzzzzzzzz

11

SciMeth(-1T) > RP

12

This is were things suddely get interesting.

IBT Mansa asks to trade DR. I say no.
IBT..... we meet Hatty!!!!

Spoiler :

She is a Vassal of Mehmed. I OB.

I also notice something else.

At some point a massive Mansa Dogpile has kicked off!!! I have no Idea when this started. Sorry!!

Spoiler :

13

We meet Gengis Khan!!! Another Mehmed Vassel! I OB.

Spoiler :

So check out the land Mehmed gave Gengis.

Spoiler :

Hahahahahahahaha. This is so sweet for us!

I played use back to a multiple of 5....

Info

Glance

Spoiler :

Tech

Spoiler :

Military

Spoiler :

Graphs and Demo

Spoiler :

So.... Looks super sweet!

I suggest only our Production centres get Cathedrals to start
with.

Use Kumbri to pump Privateers.


Roster
grandad1982
Cam H - up now
Admiral Kutzov - on deck
Meiz

(I think)

The Save

 

[Meiz]

Mehmed...

Nice playing there, grandad. Couple of random comments.

- Djenne needs wall street.
- Rouen has +5 unhappy because of missing garrisson?
- Marseilles spawns GP in two turns. Prophet for shrine, otherwise save for ga?
- There are some nice islands available, especially from Mehmed/Hatty/Genghis combo.
- I wonder how Wang Kong has managed to get so backwards with the amazing land he has...

 

[grandad1982]

Doh. I wondered were that random spearman came from! He's S of Vandal I think.

Sorry I didn't start Wall Street. Bit of a smoke move!

I think a bit of Cannon spam and we can go for Mehmed very soon. Switch vandal to a Frigate and send those others round towards Genghis.

EDIT: Well actually we need more navy to help with any Spanish threat so we can well wait into Rifles (shut down research and mass upgrade?) before we DoW on Mehmed's stupid arse!

 

[Cam_H]

Got it, and aim to play tomorrow unless you guys ask me not to.

Happy to hear thoughts / views.

We should determine a position on Mansa Musa (voluntarily vassalise if he asks, declare war by choice, declare war if asked, ignore completely, etc?). I'm inclined to ignore him completely, although Churchill asking us to join in would be a situation where it could be worth it just to keep him happy.

I still assume we're taking on Mehmed with a stack of units from Chartres and Grenoble when they're upgraded to Cannons and Rifles (that is, Macemen with City Raider 3 promotions and Musketeers). Mehmed seems to have done us a massive favour with his colonies. I'm not sure how the whole thing will work if we get Mehmed to vassalise to us (whether they're likely to break off first, or also become our vassals).

I'm inclined to swap into Free Speech on the last turn of the Golden Age. Currently 16 Towns and 39 Villages growing quickly under Emancipation, although will stick with Bureaucracy if the roster wants.

I'd go for Communism if anyone else has Scientific Method and Liberalism (Spain seems the only likely future contender at this point). It would be lucky if we could get Marseilles, Lyons, and Paris to each pop a different type of , so that Great Spy still looks good for the Golden Age to swap into cottage-oriented civics when we're ready. Paris should aim for a Great Engineer or a Prophet, Lyons a Great Scientist, and Marseilles a Great Merchant. If it doesn't work as hoped, we can fall back on Communism's Great Spy.

Rifling > Steam Power with possibly Communism thrown in depending upon the rest of the world. Steam Power will mean a few cities will need to slide levees into their queues, but we don't have a lot positioned aside long rivers.

I'd like to get a few Macemen built giving them City Raider promotions before we get Rifling. Yasodharapura to get a Jail and Security Bureau to leverage its Scotland Yard. Barracks in a few of our Khmer / Malinese captured cities.

I suggest only our Production centres get Cathedrals to start with.

Use Kumbri to pump Privateers.

I'm not a fan of Cathedrals, they're expensive and unless there's some really compelling reason to build them I'd rather get an army together. Maybe Rheims is a candidate.

Privateers get eaten by Frigates ... I'd rather more Galleons (covered by Destroyers in time, but a stack of Frigates will have do for now).

 

[grandad1982]

I was thinking Christian Cathedrals for the AP hammers. Most P cities and sub 10 turns to build them.