One Last Roll of the Dice

[Cam_H]

Opening Turn | 245 | 1000AD

Some rearrangement of citizens to emphasise production over science. Move Medic Chariot to the waiting SoD. Vandal goes with a Chariot to eventually take out Mansa’s roaming Axeman near Avignon. Science down to 0%.

Tours: > Pikeman
Tours: Spear upgraded to Pikeman
Vandal: Trebuchet (interrupt) > Chariot

Turn 1 | 246 | 1010AD

Mansa Musa builds the Masjid al Haram (yay!)

A.P. vote comes, we go for Mehmed.
Lyons: Courthouse > Trebuchet
Marseilles: Spear upgraded to Pikeman
Avignon : Market (whip)
Orleans: Maceman (whip)

Turn 2 | 247 | 1020AD

Orleans: Maceman > Trebuchet
Chartres: Islamic Temple > Crossbow
Avignon: Market > Islamic Monastery
Lyons: Trebuchet (whipped)

Turn 3 | 248 | 1030AD

• Paper > Education

Paris: Trebuchet > Trebuchet
Lyons: Trebuchet > Crossbow
Rheims: Maceman > Crossbow
Vandal : Trebuchet > Crossbow

SoD moves into Lyons. Science up to 30%

Turn 4 | 249 | 1040AD

Spain shrines the Temple of Solomon.

Marseilles : Islamic Temple > Aqueduct

SoD (27 units) reaches Mali’s borders.

Turn 5 | 250 | 1050AD

Chariot wins against roaming Mali Axeman near Avignon. First Iron Mine pillaged. Steal mali Worker near Timbuktu. Science down to 20%.

Turn 6 | 251 | 1060AD

Dogpile …

Spain builds the Chichen Itza.

Orleans: Trebuchet > Maceman
Tours: Pikeman > Barracks

Kumbi Salah’s defences are eroded. The stack is split so half end up on the second Iron Mine.

Turn 7 | 252 | 1070AD

Paris: Trebuchet > Islamic Temple (whipped … the city is both unhappy and unhealthy)
Rheims: Crossbow > Crossbow
Vandal: Crossbow > Maceman

The attack on Kumbi Salah: Catapult at 8% loses, Catapult at 22% loses, Maceman at 85% wins, Maceman at 86% loses (darn), Maceman at 93% wins, Maceman at 90% wins, Crossbow at 72% loses (darn), Crossbow at 96% wins, Axeman at 76% wins, Axeman at 97% wins, Medic Chariot at 98% wins.

Jeanne d’Arc, a French hero appropriately enough, joins our happy throng. She will eventually link to the Medic Chariot (see below).

Mali’s second Iron Mine is pillaged. A few Catapults bombard Djenne.

Turn 8 | 253 | 1080AD

The Khmer pillage a northern Sugar Plantation. We kill a Khmer Chariot with a Crossbow. Upgrade northern Axeman to Maceman. Science back down to 0%.

Paris: Islamic Temple > Maceman
Grenoble: Courthouse (whipped)

Turn 9 | 254 | 1090AD

Grenoble: Courthouse > Library

Our Crossbow and Maceman kill off two Khmer Swordsmen. Djenne’s defences are pounded down to 0%.

We make the following deals;

The map from Suryavarman is good, and we note Walta south of Timbuktu.

Turn 10 | 255 | 1100AD

Chartres: Crossbow > Pikeman
Avignon : Islamic Monastery > Islamic Temple

Vandal’s Spearman hunts down a Malinese Skirmisher leaving the city unprotected. Science back up to 30%. Marseilles soon to pop a Great Person, with lots of points in Lyons and Paris too.

The attack on Djenne: Trebuchet at 56% loses, Trebuchet at 92% withdraws, Trebuchet at 98% withdraws, Maceman at 99% loses (waaaah?), Maceman at 99% wins, Axeman at 80% wins, Axeman at 90% wins, Axeman at 99% wins, Maceman at 99% wins, Jeanne d’Arc at 96% wins (upgrade possible). 20 / turn out of the Masjid al Haram.

The front:

Technology:

 

[Meiz]

Quick turn and very nice warring. Unfortunately as much as I'd like to wrap up the war, you have to skip me now.

 

[Cam_H]

Three against the odds including a 99%er! Nonetheless, should be fairly straightforward I hope for Admiral who has been waiting for this for a while now. I think Mansa might be escaping to an island on a Galley. The Spanish war has been entirely fake. Tours is becoming a bit 'hybridy' ... I hope that's OK.

Roster;

grandad1982 << On Deck
Meiz
Cam H
Admiral Kutzov << Up​

 

[grandad1982]

War. What is it good for? Building an Empire to stand the tests of time by the looks of it.

Nice warring Cam H.

Will look at the save and comment later.

 

[grandad1982]

Ok I looked at the save.

No to much to say as I'll wait for Admirals plan before I comment to much.

On the war front I suggest we send a small stack to Gao whilst the main stack hits Mansa's Capital.

Raze Gao and Walata would be my suggestion..

Also we can build the HE. Rheims or Vandal. I lean towards Vandal as it can produce Naval units as well and then Rheims can get IW maybe.

Talking of Vandal

Spoiler :

If we farm the tile I have market "Farm" we can chain irrigate a future filler city in the S and still run the max workshops here in Vandal. Workshop over the non vital farm (i.e. not part of the chain) and then Workshop all the other tiles that are left.

Also in Rouon only farm the non riverside tiles here so the cottages can go on the River. This will mean cottaging over the farm that is already there at some point.

When Djenne comes out of revolt consentrate on a market to multiply that gold from the Shrine (thanks Mansa!).

We should aim for another GProth to shrine the Hindu faith as well. This should be our gold city.

Hopefully Izzy will carm down when we take peace with/destroy Mansa.

Oh yer. Wang has some serious land there. Why is he so backwards???

 

[grandad1982]

One last thing. If you have time to spread more Christianity then I suggest we do.

 

[Cam_H]

(Once again, I'm away from my Civ4 computer, however ...)

grandad,

All good suggestions.

On war, bear in mind that Gao is on a Hill and Mansa's got Longbows. This conflict will be easy, but it can be messed up by not taking enough units, bad RNG, or inadequate sentries in recently captured cities (i.e. don't leave Djenne bare). We do have a few cities about to produce another bunch of units if we feel that we need more down there, but I suspect they'll be used primarily against the Khmer (assuming we tackle Suryavarman next after the current peace deal is over).

Meiz did mention that one of these southern Malinese cities could be home for Maoi, but their overlap with Timbuktu / Djenne is so severe that I'm not sure they're worth the trouble, and we could be better off holding Maoi for a more productive city albeit with a few less water tiles (maybe Kumbi Salah with its Iron, Cows, and lots of water?).

Isabella has not been sighted - she was obviously bribed into the war but has not signalled any intention of doing anything about it. If we do adopt Christianity soon, I'm sure that will be enough for her to quickly settle for peace if we haven't done so prior.

I assume Wang is backwards because he's unpopular and not been in the trading circle. I was thinking the same about Suryavarman earlier - his land's not great, but nonetheless his empire's mid-sized and he should be doing better.

Not that it matters too much on this map I'd say, but worth noting that a few AIs now have Optics.

Just for the record, in our game;

Will begin war preparations > declare at 'Pleased': Mansa Musa, Suryavarman, Isabella.

Will not begin war preparations > declare at 'Pleased': Mehmed, Churchill, Wang Kon.​

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Looks good. Will play Friday or Saturday.

Looking at the map in the screenie, Lyons needs an east-west road on the southern border for tactical purposes.

Everyone agree we make Mansu a vassal after getting him off the home continent?

Going to bed. Long day at work. Plans tomorrow.

 

[Cam_H]

We haven't got Feudalism, so it's not an option unless we get it quickly. I don't mind if we just agree to peace after we successfully invade those three cities provided we get some reasonable technology for it (Philosophy at worst), and we can kill him off later. I assume that the Galley heading eastwards has a Settler on it, or else he'll probably die when we take Walata!

As mentioned some time ago, my understanding is that when you take an unpopular vassal, not only do you get the "We are worried about our rivals being vassals" diplomatic negative, but your vassal's unpopularity drags down your diplomatic standing even further.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I think I'll take Timbuktu first and then raze Gao. Seems like we're really light on trebs so build some more of those.

GP, what shall I do with those? Bulb? Prophet would go to a shrine.

GG, another medic?

Any preference for the AP vote?

Clearing Mansu appears straightforward. I'll play tomorrow.

Okay to build a castle in Tours?

plan is to kill mansu off the mainland, coerce some techs out out of him, and whip out some trebs.

 

[Cam_H]

I'll leave it up to you, but I think that you 'should' be able to take Gao with half of the invasion force and knock over Timbuktu's cultural defences in the meantime with the other half, joining the two up for crunch time. This also allows for those four units being built in Paris, Rheims, Orleans and Lyon to catch up if you want them.

Mansa has a Maceman just outside Djenne that you can try to pick off with the Crossbow at 77% odds immediately. The way my luck was running, I was hesitant to do it myself!

On ;

A Great Prophet won't happen out of Marseilles. Note however that Hinduism is not well spread.

The Great Scientist dilemma is the one we had before; settle in Paris, Academy in Lyons, or bulb (towards Education this time), and again I'm quite content with any of the options, with the slightest lean to bulbing Education and get cracking on Universities for Oxford.

A Great Engineer would probably be best settled in Paris, but I'm open to other suggestions.

A Great Merchant bulbs towards Printing Press, which isn't bad, but settling in Djenne or a trade mission also work. I'd be inclined to settle in Djenne.

A Great Artist could be settled in Paris (Representation + Oxford Uni' in time) or held back for a Golden Age.

The next Great General I'd merge into Rheims or Vandal, but if the roster needs a second Super-Medic I won't complain. ​

A.P. vote - I'd stick with keeping Mehmed at Pleased for now (while our attention is elsewhere).

I don't mind a Castle in Tours, but I'm not sure why we particularly want it.

Best of luck!

 

[grandad1982]

A GG should prbably go to Vandal (if we plan on building the HE there (please don't forget what I said in my earlier post about farms and workshops here))

Spoiler :

GSci I suggest bulbing towards Edu is the best bet. If we can get Philo out of Mansa for peace....
GMerc settle or bulb or trade. Don't mind, so do as you see fit!
GEng Settle in Paris I guess. Rheims would be another option if we thought that the IW would go there.
GArt, I have no preference for.

Vote for Mehmed in AP.

Basically what Cam has said

 

[Cam_H]

If we do bulb Education, I'd be keen to get those six Universities up pretty promptly. Paris, Lyons, Orleans, Marseilles, and Tours I guess are 'gimmies', Chartres isn't dragging in many flasks but could do as the sixth Uni' city just to get it done, where as Avignon and Rouen have those plantation resources and growing Cottages but relatively small hauls and will want Uni's at some point soon nonetheless. This University focus might delay any plans that we might have for Suryavarman a little.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I don't mind a Castle in Tours, but I'm not sure why we particularly want it.

defense and an extra trade route. In my warped little mind I kind of think of Tours as an analog for Bastogne in WW2. Yes, I'm paranoid.

 

[Cam_H]

Again, I don't mind if you want it, but at the moment its trade routes are pulling in only 1 each while I'm hoping that defending Tours will not be an issue as we could well be taking the fight to the Khmer soon enough rather than concerning ourselves too much about getting invaded.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

stuff happens. Southern borders are clear. couldn't do more. sorry.

I feel like a bull in a china shop with y'all. Hope I didn't muck it up too much.

Research is a zero. I didn't whip at all. Units are moving north towards Tours. We're researching Liberalism.

Here's the report. My graphics skills suck (I still can't seem to capture the screenies I want)

Turn Zero - upgrade a sword to a mace. Bad luck streak continues, xbow loss to the mace SW of Djenne. Send a mace out to kill the offender.

Wang wants open borders. no. dyes, banana, silk to Wang for pig, spice, 8gpt

hit enter.

Turn 1 -1110
Paris mace > treb
Orleans mace > treb
Rhiems xbow > treb
Vandal mace > treb
Gsci pops, bulb Education. Start Philo. upgrade an ax. drop research to zero

Turn 2 - 1120
poor note taking

Turn 3 - 1130
Start bombing Gao

Turn 4 -1140
Wang offers HB for Aesth +17g. Ok
treb attacks Gao, dies flawlessly
cat attacks Gao, dies flawlessly
mace attacks Gao, dies flawlessly
ditto
ax attacks Gao, dies flawlessly
cat attacks Gao, withdraws
ditto
ax kills LB at Gao
ditto
Jeanne takes Gao
4 cats bomb Timbuktu to 28%
2 trebs bomb Timbuktu to zero

Turn 5 - 1150
AP vote, Mehmed
3 trebs withdraw at Timbuktu
mace kills xbow at timbuktu
Surys Doom kill xbow
xbow kills LB
mace kills LB
mace kills LB, takes Timbuktu

Turn 6- 1160
paris treb > treb
Orleans ? > castle
Rheims treb > CH
Vandal ? > CM
Rouen forge > CH

Turn 7 -1170
Poor note taking

Turn 8 - 1180
Churchill offers Drama + 380 for paper. no
bomg Walata to zero
treb withdraws v. LB
start moving troops north to Tours

Turn 9 - 1190
Churchill wants to trade world maps. ok after a bit of pondering.
To make a long story short, we take Walata.
GG born Avigon - skip
Peace with Mansu - Philo + compass. Bella still won't talk. Paper to Churchill for Feudalism + 270.

Turn 10 - 1200
Paris treb > treb
Orleans castle > treb

I'll leave the domestic planning to the rest of you. In general, improve the economy and get ready to go kill the Khmer.

And if I haven't mentioned it before, I'll be really, really happy when we get out of slavery. I MM so much better when not in slavery.

We need a settler or 2.

 

[Meiz]

First of all, sorry about the lack of my comments. Ironically summer vacation gives me the least amount of time for civ . I'm also mostly away for the whole next week (honeymoon trip, probably won't play civ during that time ). Hopefully I can play one set on the weekend before I leave...

Anyway, it's nice to see Mansa banished from our continent. I feel like Walata should have been razed though... And on second though Gao isn't really any prime spot either. Not sure what I was thinking earlier. Well, some courthouses there and they should pay for themselves. Moai statues serve better in Mansa's ex- cow / iron city as grandad mentioned. Speaking of the iron mine, both of them should be quickly re-mined.

I also think that now is the time to rebuild our economy and not to go for another war. We need to get the universities and Oxford up as soon as possible. I can't think of better plan for this than Cam_H suggested.

We are heading for Liberalism and I'd be very surprised if we don't get there first. In a completely cliché manner, I'd take the most expensive tech, Nationalism.

We will get our next GP from Lyons in 3 turns. Highest chance is for GS, which could partially bulb Printing Press (I think...). That could work for rebuilding our economy a bit faster. If we get a GM, I'd suggest a trade mission (unless it would bulb something very handy). There is a small chance for a GE, which could be saved for Taj Majhal.

We haven't still built Heroic Epic. Rheims seems to be the natural choise for that.

Also, Tours really needs some worker attention, as it's working three unimproved grasslands and a lake. We should be working some cottages there already.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset Admiral - mission accomplished.

I'm not sure what we can do about Walata and Gao other than whip a Courthouse and Harbor in Gao (that might have to alternate / share the Sheep with Djenne?), while Walata will also want a Granary and Lighthouse. Walata at least has a settled Military Instructor.

Just to be repetitive, 'yes' to Kumbi Saleh getting Maoi, 'yes' Iron Mines near Djenne need restoration, 'yes' (agreeing with myself now ) ... Universities > Oxford as previously suggested, and 'yes' to some Worker attention around Tours when possible, but I acknowledge there's a lot still on our plate.

Personally I'd settle the likely upcoming Great Scientist in Paris, but I'm not opposed to bulbing towards Printing Press if you really want. I suppose it might depend a little on whether we think we can slingshot Replaceable Parts with Liberalism after completing Printing Press, and after all that head for Rifling.

The Great General should go where The Heroic Epic goes, and there's little to split Vandal and Rheims, but grandad's suggestion that Vandal be the one because of naval unit capability makes sense, so 'yes' to that too.

Honeymoon? ... Congratulations!

 

[grandad1982]

Congratulations Meiz

I thought that honeymoons were the best time to play civ.

I really wish Walata and Gao had been razed. There just adding to city upkeep. Its a shame there is no option to relocate the population to other cities in civ.

I guess I'm up if Meiz is coming up with excuses like just getting married

I'll post a plan tomorrow and play sunday.

I agree with whats already been said. I would go for HE in Vandal (since I was the one to suggest it ).

I think in general we should rebuild and wait till rifles or steel to clear the rest of our continent. I can see this going to a modern naval war before we win.

 

[Meiz]

Well actually I got married on last december, but we wanted to travel to Azores during summertime. But thanks anyway

I could also play the next set if that's ok with you. Otherwise I'll probably lose whatever perception I've had for the game