Well unsuprisingly I'm happy with you to kick this off with a split stack gambit.
The major benifit of the Steel line apart from Cannons (which actually we won't get much use from I suspect) is it opens the Iron Works for some serious wonder whoring. Also the extra workshop hammer from Chem would (with guilds) make those grassland tiles into mined grassland hills.
I guess another option is to head to Demo fo the SoL which would be good for our Rep empire. Just to mix things up
We should spread Christianity to our production cities.
* Knowing a Golden Age was on the way, I generally tried to restrict whipping to the start of the turnset, avoid taking citizens off cottages or resources, and emphasise regrowth.
Two Macemen defeat a Horse Archer (at 73%) and Swordsman (at 99%) and steal a Worker.
Turn 3 | Turn 288 | 1340AD
Tours: Trebuchet > Spy
Marseilles : Musketeer > Christian Missionary
Vandal : Musketeer > Musketeer
Avignon : Spy > Musketeer
Grenoble : University (whip)
Timbuktu : Christian Temple (whip)
Rouen : University (whip)
Pikeman (at 99%) defeats a Chariot. Two SoDs arrive outside Angkor Wat and Rajavihara.
Mehmed : Banana <> Wheat
Turn 4 | Turn 289 | 1345AD
Paris : Christian Temple > Musketeer
Marseilles : Christian Missionary > Christian Missionary
Grenoble : University > Lighthouse
Rouen : University > Courthouse
Kumbi Saleh : Christian Temple > Lighthouse
Timbuktu : Christian Temple > Market
Defences at Rajavihara fall. Trebuchet at 21% loses, Trebuchet at 25% loses, Trebuchet at 88% withdraws, Maceman at 61% wins, Maceman at 87% wins, five Macemen each at 99% win. Rajavihara is left with a severely injured Spearman.
Khmer troops hurry to reinforce Rajavihara. Maceman at 66% wins, Musketeer at 68% loses, Musketeer at 91% wins, Trebuchet at 98% withdraws, Maceman at 99% wins. Rajavihara is taken and queued with a Granary.
Angkor Wat : Trebuchet at 57% withdraws, Trebuchet at 80% withdraws, three Trebuchets at 99% withdraw, Catapult at 99% withdraws, two Musketeers at 99% win, two Macemen at 99% win. Angkor Wat is taken and Suryavarman will capitulate. Angkor Wat queued with a Granary build.
Defences in Hariharalaya down to 17% and Pre Rup down to 0%.
Trireme defends against a Khmer Trireme but sinks when attacked by a Galley.
Turn 10 | Turn 295 | 1375AD
Golden Age begins.
Great Engineer (Cai Lun – creator of ‘modern’ paper around Second Century China) is popped in Paris.
Spoiler:
Harbormaster
Prereq: COMPASS AND Map has at least 40% water tiles
Obsolete: STEAM_POWER or STEEL or SCIENTIFIC_METHOD or ARTILLERY
Active/Weight: 25/500
Aim: Build default number of players for this world size harbors (7 for standard) AND half that number +1 caravels (4 for standard)
Result:
1.All Naval Units gain the Combat 1 promotion
2.All harbors gain +1 gold
3.All Naval Units gain the Navigation 1 promotion
Rheims : Taj Mahal > Christian Temple
Hariharalaya’s defences are knocked out. Trebuchet at 77% withdraws, four Trebuchets at 98% withdraw, one Trebuchet at 99% withdraws, four Macemen at 99% win, one Medic Chariot at 97% wins.
Pre Rup is attacked. Catapult at 21% loses, Maceman at 92% wins, Catapult at 70% loses (sorry), Catapult at 94% withdraws, two Macemen at 99% win. One Maceman at 99% remains to take or raze the city.
Civic switch possible. Decision on Pre Rup required. What to do with the Great Engineer? Probably now have enough Musketeers after this existing round of builds, and maybe we can look at different builds for a while. grandad's suggestion of City Raider Macemen > Riflemen would be one consideration. I think we have ample Medieval-Renaissance troops to take the remaining Khmer mainland cities, while the core empire looks at things such as getting enough Banks for Wall Street (Djenne), speaking of which Djenne should swap over to a Bank, and other candidates such as Avignon could be considered also.
Screenshot of 'the front';
Tech';
Roster;
grandad1982 - <<< On Deck
Cam -
Admiral Kutzov - <<< Up
Meiz - Please Do Not Disturb
Balls I just noticed you'd posted your report as I'm about to go to bed. I'll read it tomorrow. Sorry I haven't commented on the save yet but real life has shat on me. I'll try tomorrow.
One south gives us two workable Incense tiles. Whether it's worth the cost of having to build a Settler and losing whatever existing buildings in Pre Rup, I'm not sure. I'd probably keep it, acknowledging that it was poorly placed.
Free Religion was my understanding on what we agreed on, but I'd also swap into Mercantilism. There was talk about Bureaucracy vs. Free Speech, and Bureaucracy won.
It was also my understanding that our victory goal was Domination or Conquest.
On builds, I don't mind if you want to interrupt some of the existing queues to get Banks up. I was in 'war mode' when playing and by-passed Grocers and Banks in preference for more Musketeers and Trebuchets, but as I said before, we've got more than enough troops to kick Suryavarman off our continent, and we'll be wanting Industrial Era troops for Mehmed I'm guessing. We could build Settlers for those last few city spots also.
The Great Engineer's a bit of a fuzzy one for me: The Statue of Liberty, The Kremlin, Ironworks, or Wall Street could all be rushed with him if we were OK for him to sleep for a while and we were keen to pursue these Wonders' technologies. He could be merged into our future Ironworks city, of which there are a few candidates ... grandad suggested Rheims as a possibility.
Keep or raze Pre Rup I don't mind. Ideally it should be 1S but thats just another settler to build.
What ever happens DO NOT VASSALISE SURY as he is a diplomatic turd.
It seems that we won't use our spies against Sury so I suggest EP is leveled more with a bias towards Mehmed.
Consentrate on Banks and groccers in the Commerce cities.
I think Chartres needs more religions to increase culture output.
I still support IW in Rheims. I guess the other options are Paris and Orleans. Rheims just seems best placed for it in its set up at the moment. I guess if we went Paris we could take more advantage of the eng slots but I'm not really bothered by that.
To this end I don't mind if the GEng is merged in Rheims or kept to speed the IW. I don't think it should go on another wonder as with IND and IW we should easilly get any future wonders we want (tech permiting).
I assume we're heading up to Steel at the moment. Is this the consensus? After that I'd be interested in RP or Demo (SoL).
Civics should be FR and Merc. Don't to forget a last chance whipping round before the switch.
What about selling Mehemed Guilds? Also Edu could be sold to Churchill maybe?
I also agree with Cam about getting those last city spots settled or at least getting a couple of settler pods ready for them (with new workers).
I would vassalise Suryavarman once we took the last of the continental cities, but I'm happy enough to go along with grandad and just let Sury' limp around like Mansa in the Tundra.
Espionage against Suryavarman wasn't giving me any decent options. I agree that directing it at Mehmed now is a better idea, even if the points are used for stealing technology rather than sending cities into revolt. I'd like to steal Optics from him for starters.
I thought about Chartres building The Hermitage, but it seemed to be an expensive solution to a fairly short-term problem. Depends on our war plans for the Ottomans ... do we want to hold back on tackling Mehmed until we've got all of our 'ducks lined up' or do we go with the stop-start approach as we have with Mali and the Khmer where we; start a war, take the continental cities, and then call it quits? We'll end up at war with Spain when we do so, and we'll need to protect ourselves from coastal invaders.
I headed towards Steel because that's what everyone else wanted. The free Great Merchant is still available from Economics. If we are going to war with Mehmed soon, I'd press on with Steel for Cannons and Ironworks. If we're not, I'd go after Economics for the Great Merchant and also Free Market.
The way I envisage the game going is that we're going to want Destroyers, Transports, and Infantry for the win. If so, what's the best way of getting there? This is our 'menu' with selected notes;
Assembly Line
Astronomy (Observatories, inter-continental )
Chemistry (+1 from Workshops)
Combustion
Constitution
Corporation (+1, Wall St.)
Economics (free Great Merchant)
Optics
Railroad (+1 on Mines and Quarries)
Replaceable Parts
Rifling
Scientific Method (obsoletes The Great Library)
Steam Power (levees)
Steel (Ironworks)
I'm a bit inclined to focus on the economic and scientific technologies first, so we can get through the rest of it faster, so Corporation and Astronomy has appeal.
Another issue that we've not touched on for a while was switching from a specialist economy to a cottage economy. I raise this because of our Golden Age allowing us to swap into Universal Suffrage and Free Speech, and secondly whether we want to go after Democracy (Emancipation {faster Cottage growth} and Statue of Liberty {free specialist}).
Are we ever going to get Drama?
Finally ... I'm not a great fan of selling technologies for cash at this point in the game unless it's thousands of or terribly important from a diplomatic angle. Again, this is a succession game and I'm happy to go with the roster's communal direction, but I really don't like feeding the AI technology, especially as our plan is to invade them later.
Come on GD, don't hold back, what do you really think of him.
My preference is to use GEng to build IW.
One south gives us two workable Incense tiles. Whether it's worth the cost of having to build a Settler and losing whatever existing buildings in Pre Rup, I'm not sure. I'd probably keep it, acknowledging that it was poorly placed.
That's what I was thinking. I don't want to have to build another settler just to get one more workable tile.
On builds, I don't mind if you want to interrupt some of the existing queues to get Banks up. I was in 'war mode' when playing and by-passed Grocers and Banks in preference for more Musketeers and Trebuchets, but as I said before, we've got more than enough troops to kick Suryavarman off our continent, and we'll be wanting Industrial Era troops for Mehmed I'm guessing. We could build Settlers for those last few city spots also.
I'll probably let the builds finish with an eye on going after the Turks sooner than later. Not sure if it was Stalin or Zhukov who made the comment about quantity having a quality...
What about selling Mehemed Guilds? Also Edu could be sold to Churchill maybe?
Finally ... I'm not a great fan of selling technologies for cash at this point in the game unless it's thousands of or terribly important from a diplomatic angle.
I'm not inclined to sell unless it is on the path of bringing us up to tech parity.
Locked in: victory goal is domination or conquest.
Tactically, I'm thinking that I need to push Sury off the mainland and then set up for Mehmed. Strategically, this means putting the EPs between Churchill, Izzy and Mehmed.
Looks like our civics choices are still up in the air. I'll think on this and post tomorrow.
Sorry for being more of an idiot than usual, but I'm on vacation. The internet connection sucks, I spent 4 hours floating down a river and I've been into the vodka. I'll be home tomorrow and can probably have some sort of plan by Sunday. I'm too sunburned to consider our tech path at this point.
When I said "sell" to Churchill I ment trade for techs (one of which could be drama ).
As for selling to Mehmed he is going to tech Guilds in a few turns anyway.
As for when we tackle Mehmed I'd like to wait untill we can defend our coasts properly (destroyers) and take that island he and Izzy share to the N of our landmass. Or at least untill its nearly possible to take that island. Mehmed already has a better navy than us.
In my games I tend to go for Railroads sooner rather than later as I like the production boost. However in this case I agree we should be more economy focused in our tech path after steel. Having said this we shouldn't ignore Rifles or maybe Grens for to long as we may want then in our war against Mehmed.
We should also avoid SciMeth untill we have Christian Monastarys in as many cities as possible.
Lets consider replacing someof the coastal and stratigic garrisons with more upto date troops before we eattack Mehmed and get Izzy invoved to.
On civics the imediate switch should be FR and Merc. We should stay rep for a while as it goes well with the Merc spec. Once we get Emancipation we could switch civics again (probably worth the anarchy) for the full on Cottage vibe. Orleans at this point could go pure production whilst Lyons went commerce.
Not "wrong", but I'm less inclined to trade tech's than grandad. We've had WFYABTA issues from the early game, and currently only have one meaningful trading partner, who's also our greatest rival. The Guilds for deals with Mehmed and Masna, I can be swayed on (and won't affect WFYABTA), but they could potentially gift / trade Guilds to Suryavarman, and then we'd have Knights rather than Horse Archers to deal with, which could slow us down.
Selling Education to Churchill for Optics, Drama, and seems pretty lopsided in his favour, but Education is hardly a monopoly tech'. I probably wouldn't make this trade, but I'm OK with it if you do.
Personally I'd go after Economics now, but the roster wants Chemistry > Steel.
If we don't get it from Churchill in the proposed trade, I'd also look at the possibility of stealing Optics from the Ottomans although it might be just as easy to research it.
So, lots of mixed signals, but I'm pretty relaxed if you want to make the trades and/or by-pass Economics. The main issue at hand is taking those last continental Khmer cities. Best of luck!
1375 (0) - Take and keep Pre Rup. Decide to hold the GEng for IW. Send him to Rheims. Increase science to 50%
1380 (1) -
vandal musket > settler
Rearrange EPs to Mehmed & sir Winston
Kill 3 LBs Sw of Nagora with muskets
Lyon spy (interrupt) Bank
Orleans musket (interrupt) Bank
Tours spy (interrupt) bank
Grenoble LH (interrupt) bank
Djenne Grocer (interrupt) bank
Shouldn't we be building the FP somewhere?
1385 (2)
Paris gorcer > bank
Idiot attacks Nagora with 2 muskets and flawlessly loses both.
Since relations with Izzy go into the toilet when we declare on Mehmed, I deal fur and marble to Wang for gold and 5gpt. Also open the borders with Wang
1390 (3)
Drop research to 50%.
chem > econ (free merchant)
Rheims temple > Angkor Wat (run some priests?) IIRC, we need another GProphet
1395 (4)
Vandal settler > worker
Battle of Isu <illegible>
trebs go 2-1
cat wins
maces go 5-0 & we own it.
Sury mounts a massive counterattack with a horse and a chariot. We kill them with muskets.
Trade Education to Winston for Drama, WM, 370g (he's researching it)
research to 70%, Econ in 3
1400 (5)
Vandal worker > Christian missionary (hereinafter CM)
Kimbi CH > stable
Timbuktu market > grocer
Nagora defense shelled to zero
1405 (6)
trade WMs with Wang
Marseilles CH > rax
Vandal CM > CM
Research to 60%, Econ in 1
Dijon planted. Begin mustard production.
Trebs go 1-2 at Nagora, maces go 3-0, we own it. Plink 2 workers on the outskirts.
1410 (7)
Econ > Steel
Avignon musket > bank
AP vote abstain
Bomb Yasad to 28%
Research to zero
1415 (8)
Paris bank > stable
Lyons spy > grocer
Marseilles rax > grocer
Vandal CM > CM
Grenoble LH > grocer
Kumbi Stable > market
AP winner is Mehmed
Rheims whips Angkor Wat
Yasod is bombed to zero
1420 (9)
Paris stable > knight
Rheims AW > stable
Vandal CM > CM
Research to 70%, steel in 5
Yasod falls. trebs go 3-2, cat wins, maces 10-0. Starts theatre.
Stopped one short and ceding the next turn so we can talk about switching civics if we want to. One turn left on the GA. WE need to rebuild the seige units as I did not do well. I've trickled some units over to Chartres. There's plenty left to kick sury off the mainland. as previously noted
Here's my punchlist:
Don't vassal sury - check
keep Pre Rup - check
Revolt to FR and merc - check
Get banks and grocers up - in progress
Build settler pods and backfill - got one up
Hold GEng for IW - in progress
Steel > RP - in progress, diverted for Econ
EP to Mehmed - hmm, split it between and him and Churchill
update the coastal garrisons - fail
My vote is to spend the next set updating the coastal garrisons with knight and or muskets and then go after Mehmed. We can kick him off the mainland long before destroyers. Then again, I'm a bloodthirsty idiot
Change before the GA runs out?
probably should reverse this
Really?
One mainland city left. Can't see it, but Sury doesn't have much left.
On a personal note, I figured out that I need to hit shift + print screen to take screenies the easy way. I'm an idiot.
p.s. we're having a GP orgy - look for GM, GG, and GE in various cities.
Probably I'd load the Great Merchant on a Caravel (soon) for a trade mission to Seoul. I'd like to steal Optics from Mehmed (Caravels), so we should start by putting a Spy in Bursa. Djenne is hardly food-rich, so merging the Great Merchant there for the as well as the could work. My preference is for the trade mission given we're probably going to want to upgrade most of our promoted units to Rifles, and our few remaining siege units to Cannons.
The Great General could be used in several ways, but I'm inclined to merge him into Rheims, although OK to merge into Vandal.
I've 'ummed-and-ahhed' over our civics, and am leaning to waiting for Democracy (Emancipation) before going with cottaged-focussed civics. I could be persuaded to switch to Christian Theocracy, but Free Religion will keep England pleased, and won't upset our citizens when we do opt to attack Mehmed. As such, I'm OK with what we have for now.
I'd envisaged Yasodharapura was to be our Forbidden Palace city, but I think Hariharalaya will do the job quicker and just as well.
Thanks for the turns Admiral. I'll look over the save in a short while. Did anyone notice if when Meiz was back in the loop? If I come up with a plan and then get ready to play he can take it if he's back before I play and he wants it.
GM to trade mission for Seoul and GE to Iron works were suggested, but how about another golden age instead? Probably should also wait for Marseilles to get another GP in 4 turns (when specs hired) and see what comes out of there before deciding which two GP's to use.
The way I see it, we should tech Steel -> Rifling while in golden age and kill Mehmed with more advanced troops. We can take Sury's last mainland city with current troops and make peace.
I'm quite open to talk this one through further, but I've got to confess that while I'm thinking that a Golden Age isn't a bad idea, if we do trigger one I'd rather have it closer to a 'crunch time'. Mehmed has 14 cities, and only 4 of them are on our landmass (albeit his best city is one of them). I don't think that we should attack him until we have a decent navy - and personally I'd be more comfortable using Destroyers / Transports than trying to do it with Frigates / Galleons. We can of course look at the option of cash-upgrading Frigates to Destroyers.
Just to be repetitive I'd look at tech's such as Corporation (+1, Wall St.) and possibly Democracy (Emancipation for growing our Cottages at double pace, switch to cottage-based civics, bonus of The Statue of Liberty) rather than 'say' beelining Rifling, as I think that we should be getting a dozen technologies before taking on the world, so we possibly should focus on technologies that will speed our way through these dozen or so technology targets. If we complete Steel now, at very least our unit pumps can churn out Cannons if there's nothing else appropriate to build. When we get closer to Combustion and/or Rifling, then maybe that would be a good time for the Golden Age, if not after Democracy for an Anarchy-free switch to new civics.
My hesitation is also a bit to do with 'burning' two of my preferred -types in non-Culture games. I'd be happier if we were talking about using a Great Artist and a Great Spy, as I see some really worthwhile possibilities for the Great Engineer and the Great Merchant.
As I say, I'm happy to kick around this suggestion further.
b.t.w. ... just to note that Isvarapura has an Academy, and Yasodharapura has Scotland Yard.
Makes sense (and thanks for repeating your thoughts, still trying to catch up)
Still I feel like burning GE for IW seems like a bit of vaste (as we're not competing for it). Partially rushing SoL would have more appeal to me.
Anyway, we can generate GP's quite easilly from "Mars...", and the pool is quite mixed. So I will wait for "non-preferable" GP's to sacrifice for our next GA I'll also try to get more priest slots available there to increase the chances of a prophet (and we also have Angkor Wat it seems )
I will play tomorrow, so post more comments if anything else comes to mind.
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)
from Workshops)
or terribly important from a diplomatic angle. Again, this is a succession game and I'm happy to go with the roster's communal direction, but I really don't like feeding the AI technology, especially as our plan is to invade them later.
probably should reverse this
as well as the 
!
