Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Withe the source-code, you can educate even more! - the campaign slogan 
Online petition for an updated Civ III editor
- Thread starter Rob (R8XFT)
- Start date
Sure! Hey why not? its got a nice ring to it! Seriously
We Can't change the fact this is the first time theyve given 200 000 copies away, and the first time they've had their developer get hired out by these same clients and the first time....theyve released the source code???Sure can you say why not? The client happend to be one of the worlds richest Gov's (G8)who's already shown commitment and resolve to use the highest quality and standards for its finished product.(Hell, they sub -contracted the same programmers from Breawaway and got senators speakin for it at are Nations Capital! (check website)
Its All for educational purposes so promises huge payouts nation wide ...really? am I that far off with this one?
How much money to they expect to milk of this bloody thing for it to be realesed? They think this chance will come again? Civ5 will crush any interest still left in it.
If the source code lured a contract the likes of above, why they'd just be stupid to not co operate with Breakaway reps to satisfy their custumer who wants freedom of creativity. Its really the only payout Take two can't say no to and also only one I can ever envision actually being proposed. ( If we have smart guys in Edu dept.)
warmwaffles
Programmer
Withe the source-code, you can educate even more! - the campaign slogan
That is actually a good idea because if they release the source code I will have to stop Java programming and jump into C++ programming...which will be required by my job in 3 years max.
JONES dude take some time and read through what you type, some of the grammer is poor...I didn't know they contracted some Sun programmers
Oh fine I give up today! After this I'll start editing before I post. To bad I'll miss the excitment but will have to adjust cuz Im ruining a heck of a lot of good err, I mean long posts
Last words: Not much we can do but wait n see. Truly I give props to those in thick of it and that includes the lobbists. This battles has tremendous rewards if won
polyphemus
join the long blue line
Seriously
Sure can you say why not? The client happend to be one of the worlds richest Gov's (G8)who's already shown commitment and resolve to use the highest quality and standards for its finished product.(Hell, they sub -contracted the same programmers from Breawaway and got senators speakin for it at are Nations Capital! (check website)
Its All for educational purposes so promises huge payouts nation wide ...really? am I that far off with this one?
How much money to they expect to milk of this bloody thing for it to be realesed? They think this chance will come again? Civ5 will crush any interest still left in it.
If the source code lured a contract the likes of above, why they'd just be stupid to not co operate with Breakaway reps to satisfy their custumer who wants freedom of creativity. Its really the only payout Take two can't say no to and also only one I can ever envision actually being proposed. ( If we have smart guys in Edu dept.)
Maybe the don't want us to learn so we can't develop our own game and compete with them
Maybe the don't want us to learn so we can't develop our own game and compete with them
Ya but where does the monatay gain cancel out the negtaive effects in the event this were to happen?
Civ will always have the name that other will have to compete against and They have TRUSTED professionals working on this better design. The educational contracts are huge! Its their target market.
They can't go on be woosies forever they got to take a chance before CIv5 erases any memory of Civ3 from the history books.
You say they shoul be scared to take all this money cuz some kid might make his own Civ3 game and sell it to other schools?
Its a lil late if Take Two's already cashed in don't you think? If it pays off These kids are going to buy new civ editions later ontop of heavy lisenceing fees already collected. Whats to worry about?
polyphemus
join the long blue line
Haha, I'm just posting whatever weird theory pops into my head.
Haha, I'm just posting whatever weird theory pops into my head.
What? They gave em 200 000 copies for free! Mybe picture that stacked up in your pad so you gettin an idea here on what thats worth. Gettin gifts like that, having potental market access. Its a start for asking ain't it?.
I figured it was worth mentioning on a thread like this. Why is it less real then anything else put forth so far
warmwaffles
Programmer
So what were the 200,000 copies again? The actual source code for the game?
No its commitment to continue workin with each other. If the next project stalls due to Civ3 limits the guy Canada hired(same one Firaxis hired to make Conquests) might consider taking GOV money to Take two for access to source code for better implimentation of mods
Result the program is success kids buy new instalment lisence fees are renewed and other schools get intrsted so chance for more fees to be obtained.
ADD: Why do I feel now two guys, are tryn to rake me over the coals on this
. Ive made my case , History Canada is n the best shape to get the source code for this old game. Will the Gov ask?. It depends how commited they are. Enough complaints by teachers, admin, students etc..about the limits of first production and it may raise the chances they look for ways to improve (with deep pockets) The 200 000 copies show vested interest from Taketwo that the project succeeds on the long run. If they get a ton of money to help keep the project alive why not do it? So whats with stammering on bout some "weird theory "
If it DOES happen, Ive seen a lot weirdier sh#t come to light!warmwaffles
Programmer
I wish they would make it open source it would certainly stop a lot of this loathing over wanting the source.
Seriously if I had the source I would learn C++ to just fix the dang A.I., its not even remotely finished, for god sake the difficulty levels only allow a handicap for the AI to build more and research faster to try and beat the human opponent. Thats like the age old "Just throw money at the problem it can solve itself"
it would certainly stop a lot of this loathing over wanting the source.Seriously if I had the source I would learn C++ to just fix the dang A.I., its not even remotely finished, for god sake the difficulty levels only allow a handicap for the AI to build more and research faster to try and beat the human opponent. Thats like the age old "Just throw money at the problem it can solve itself"
I wish they would make it open source
Seriously if I had the source I would learn C++ to just fix the dang A.I., its not even remotely finished, for god sake the difficulty levels only allow a handicap for the AI to build more and research faster to try and beat the human opponent. Thats like the age old "Just throw money at the problem it can solve itself"
Having given this topic much thought and some action, I'm curious about whatever the consensus may be on obtaining the code.
Question 1: What would an improved Editor only contain? - I.e., what do we want access to, within the code via an upgraded Editor? (Please don't respond to this one, it's merely a rhetorical set up for ... )
Question 2: Consider how f@cking stupid the AI actually is. WE would have to design rules/algorithms specifying how the AI should use artillery, naval and air units, not to mention strategic options the AI could evaluate concerning its entire Civ.
For those of you who aren't computer and/or AI specialists, Q2 is the really, really hard part. - Mind you, I'd certainly be willing to give it a go but, as I pointed out much earlier in the thread, this is no small undertaking in both time and effort.
Plus I suspect that the AI code is so FUBAR that the real reason no one will reply to our queries is that they're professionally embarrassed by how shoddy the workmanship is (OK, I'm partly kidding on this one).
Irrespective, I'm increasingly convinced that our best hope is that APIs were properly encoded and that we can at least have a map to that, so that we at least can know what parameters can be changed via our dream Editor.
- As a matter of fact, I'll send yet another email this weekend asking simply and only for an API map, should one exist. If we can get that, I think it'll be the best compromise between getting the actual code or not.
Best,
Oz
Not doubting this. I heard from a moderator all the patch jobs done before Conquests, when it was holyier then a hand gernade, basicly left it lookin shabby and flimsily held toghter with duck tape so to speak. As a progammer it would be as you say, an embassement in every way
Man thanks for serving on the front lines for us. You can be sure I'll stay tuned for Oz's lastest n greatest adventures in corprate jungles
Well, that's why I'm not asking them to make it public, but to transfer the code to a group of fan developpers who would try to make it better, under a NDA. They could laugh at the code if needed to heir heart content, between them, and they would not be allowed to tell the community.
Beside, if they do not succeed to make the necessary changes, it will become "their fault", instead of being Firaxis's.
Beside, if they do not succeed to make the necessary changes, it will become "their fault", instead of being Firaxis's.
warmwaffles
Programmer
I have been tossing up this idea and now I think I should probably share it, and I believe it adds onto Steph's idea parsay
Well my idea was to go to 2KGames (or who ever owns the source) and ask for an "Open Source" community. Now when we ask this we need to define Open Source as
And we need to make sure to let them know that Open source does not necessarily mean it needs to be free but rather we pay a one time charge for the source oh say 20 bucks or how much ever the game was to buy and allow us all to work collectively and put together patches for this game that would effect the overall lifetime of this game especially if we extend the modding capabilities because CivIII could quite possibly have limitless boundaries if we all work together. And rather than say a team of 20 people work on the source but a team of hundreds collectively working together and sharing ideas and thoughts. (Education my friend )
And if we extend the lifetime on this product they ultimately will benefit in sales of the source AND the actual game itself. Now I don't know all the legalities and crap like that, that will have to go with this but I think this would be a good idea to pitch at them?
Anyone have any thoughts? Cuz its like 2AM here and I am FULL of ideas....plus I can't sleep...
Well my idea was to go to 2KGames (or who ever owns the source) and ask for an "Open Source" community. Now when we ask this we need to define Open Source as
And we need to make sure to let them know that Open source does not necessarily mean it needs to be free but rather we pay a one time charge for the source oh say 20 bucks or how much ever the game was to buy and allow us all to work collectively and put together patches for this game that would effect the overall lifetime of this game especially if we extend the modding capabilities because CivIII could quite possibly have limitless boundaries if we all work together. And rather than say a team of 20 people work on the source but a team of hundreds collectively working together and sharing ideas and thoughts. (Education my friend
)And if we extend the lifetime on this product they ultimately will benefit in sales of the source AND the actual game itself. Now I don't know all the legalities and crap like that, that will have to go with this but I think this would be a good idea to pitch at them?
Anyone have any thoughts? Cuz its like 2AM here and I am FULL of ideas....plus I can't sleep...
polyphemus
join the long blue line
I have been tossing up this idea and now I think I should probably share it, and I believe it adds onto Steph's idea parsay
Well my idea was to go to 2KGames (or who ever owns the source) and ask for an "Open Source" community. Now when we ask this we need to define Open Source as
And we need to make sure to let them know that Open source does not necessarily mean it needs to be free but rather we pay a one time charge for the source oh say 20 bucks or how much ever the game was to buy and allow us all to work collectively and put together patches for this game that would effect the overall lifetime of this game especially if we extend the modding capabilities because CivIII could quite possibly have limitless boundaries if we all work together. And rather than say a team of 20 people work on the source but a team of hundreds collectively working together and sharing ideas and thoughts. (Education my friend
And if we extend the lifetime on this product they ultimately will benefit in sales of the source AND the actual game itself. Now I don't know all the legalities and crap like that, that will have to go with this but I think this would be a good idea to pitch at them?
Anyone have any thoughts? Cuz its like 2AM here and I am FULL of ideas....plus I can't sleep...
All I have to say is that I love that idea.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
I too like the idea, but sadly, I think that 2K won't, due to the same mystery reason they won't just plain release the source for a whole lot of money...
warmwaffles
Programmer
Ya but in this case they could make money steadily and keep making money from it.
Now the problem is where could we dump the code off and not allow the people who didn't pay gain access. Now the way they could do this is allow only for online purchases and the person that made the purchase is given a "serial" or an account for you to only access the code repository.
Any ways thanks for the interest guys. I think we need to actually write up a document and present it to 2KGames (or whoever) and see what they _could_ possibly do...though Virote has a good point
I_batman
Emperor
Ummm....Steph.
Go back and read what my proposal was. It was for them to transfer the code to a group of fan developers who would try to make it better, under an NDA.
I further proposed that once the work was done, the developer group would give the improved code back to 2K, who could then do with it as they liked. It was a no-lose situation for 2K as far as I was concerned. The code was secretly improved at no cost for them, and if they still did not want to sell/distribute the code after that, it never saw the light of day.
They ignored me.
Maybe you will get your proposal in front of different readers since they I sent my proposal prior to the major management shakeup at 2K.
BTW, 2K is having another major problem. Rockstar's Manhunt is looking at a major rewrite now that the U.K. won't allow distribution due to the ridiculous violence, and now the U.S. is looking hard at it.
You may have some problem getting someone's attention right now.
Okay, comrades, I just sent this out to TakeTwo:
Dear Mr. Monacelli:
I am writing in an attempt to find out if any source code information might be available and, if so, under what terms.
Specifically, I am interested in the code for the C3C Editor as well as an API map for both the Editor and the game's main code (NB: This is NOT a request for access to the main gaming code itself!)
I'm aware that there have been several inquiries on this front (there are still many ardent fans congregated at Civilization Fanatics Center) but I believe this specific request - simply to let fans of your product enhance their enjoyment of the game while perhaps expanding its player base - is the first of its sort.
If there is another person I should be conveying this to, I would greatly appreciate contact information for that person.
Best Regards,
(etc.)
-Oz
Dear Mr. Monacelli:
I am writing in an attempt to find out if any source code information might be available and, if so, under what terms.
Specifically, I am interested in the code for the C3C Editor as well as an API map for both the Editor and the game's main code (NB: This is NOT a request for access to the main gaming code itself!)
I'm aware that there have been several inquiries on this front (there are still many ardent fans congregated at Civilization Fanatics Center) but I believe this specific request - simply to let fans of your product enhance their enjoyment of the game while perhaps expanding its player base - is the first of its sort.
If there is another person I should be conveying this to, I would greatly appreciate contact information for that person.
Best Regards,
(etc.)
-Oz
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