Gary Childress
Student for and of life
Well said! In my book Civ3 is the most current version of the true Civ I came to know and love.
Online petition for an updated Civ III editor
- Thread starter Rob (R8XFT)
- Start date
Well said! In my book Civ3 is the most current version of the true Civ I came to know and love.
vingrjoe
Landlocked Shipwright
CivIV is an abomination that only looks good in the right lighting.
EmpressOfNona
Plotting your destruction
But they won't. So let's support a Civ V that (hopefully) brings back some civ III spirit. I don't know anything about programing, so civ IV was\is out of my league. The graphics are hard to mod, and there's no editor.
Thus, CIV V needs to have:
+ a Civ limit that (A: is adustable, or (2: is a high number (60-100???)
+ Graphics and animations that are based off popular graphic programs (Bryce, Poser, Povray, ect.)
+ An editor, more specificly, GUI based, and UF (User Friendly). Simmilar to the civ III editor. (On a side note, the worldbuilder feature is cool, so that should stay)
+ A relased code, for advanced modding.
+ Multiple leaders, great people, civics, ambient terrain, all those great things that were added in civ IV, but some need tweeking (for example: civics need to be parts of goverment, not replacements)
+Go back to Civ III (? Civ II ?) on certen areas.
+ (A personal note: I hate Civ IV for the unfair combat that I get into and zooming-by tech tree [ I was finding it dificult to have a moment of nothing-ness, when I had built all the buildings available to me at the time, and I could have time to build larger things; army, wonders. But in Civ IV, there was always something...]
+ Hmm... I need some help here, guys.
I too would kill for a revamped Civ III, but it seems that that front is one we aren't winning
, so let's focus on Civ V, a game we just might have a say in it's creation.
I think these are great ideas. I'm afraid I don't really have anything to add at the moment, but I'll try to think of something; I know there are plenty of things I would love to see in Civ V (if we don't get a revamped Civ 3, which we probably won't).
BTW, nice use of the "backstab" and "ar15" smileys!
I_batman
Emperor
I see this thread is still floating around. Wow. Thought it was dead and buried long ago.
Folks, one more time...Take2 is NOT going to give us the code. And I am betting that even if I won the lottery tomorrow it would not be enough money to pry the code out of their hands. I am pretty sure now that they would very concerned that an improved Civ III would cannibalize too many sales from Civ IV and whatever else is coming in the series.
I am working on some commitments to El Justo re: his TCW scenarios, then I am finished with Civ III. I have not played a "traditional game" in 2 years.
Maybe then I will take a crack at programming in Civ IV. I promised VingrJoe I would try to do something about the idiotic naval AI in Civ IV.
And that is my point: We all have played Civ III to death and know every AI failure. We can't fix those failures. Civ IV is a mess as well, but at least the code can be fixed. Look at all the changes that have occurred in Civ IV in the last year.
A well-done scenario (El Justo's, Rocoteh's, among others) can breath life into the Civ III game for a few months, but this is a game that for me holds no real interest anymore. It would be better to let it die, and move on to something that we can modify.
Folks, one more time...Take2 is NOT going to give us the code. And I am betting that even if I won the lottery tomorrow it would not be enough money to pry the code out of their hands. I am pretty sure now that they would very concerned that an improved Civ III would cannibalize too many sales from Civ IV and whatever else is coming in the series.
I am working on some commitments to El Justo re: his TCW scenarios, then I am finished with Civ III. I have not played a "traditional game" in 2 years.
Maybe then I will take a crack at programming in Civ IV. I promised VingrJoe I would try to do something about the idiotic naval AI in Civ IV.
And that is my point: We all have played Civ III to death and know every AI failure. We can't fix those failures. Civ IV is a mess as well, but at least the code can be fixed. Look at all the changes that have occurred in Civ IV in the last year.
A well-done scenario (El Justo's, Rocoteh's, among others) can breath life into the Civ III game for a few months, but this is a game that for me holds no real interest anymore. It would be better to let it die, and move on to something that we can modify.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
something you can modify... OTOH, everyone can mod Civ3.
I_batman
Emperor
Wrong. NO ONE can modify the Civ III AI, because no one has the source code. And we are not getting the source code.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Not talking about the AI, I`m talking about the existance of an editor.
Logitech
A Person.
Batman, Are We Talking About Civ III?
I'm not, at least...
BTW: I'm going to keep updating my last post so we can see all the ideas we would like, not want, in civ V
I'm not, at least...
BTW: I'm going to keep updating my last post so we can see all the ideas we would like, not want, in civ V
EmpressOfNona
Plotting your destruction
Hey. You may not be interested in Civ 3 anymore, but some people are. Deal with it.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Logi, how bout opening a fresh thread for the list?
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Yah, those civ4 guys already have one IIRC.
I_batman
Emperor
All right people. As a parting gift, I give you a link that may be of use:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=40
Look for this thread name:
Why will 2K not release previous versions of Civ source code?
Some of you know that late last year I did indeed mail 2K with a formal proposal, which they ignored. Hence my cynicism of the code ever being made available.
So for the people that think there is a chance of getting 2K's attention and the source code, try that link.
BTW, you get the source code, I am sure you will have many willing C++ coders available to modify it.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=40
Look for this thread name:
Why will 2K not release previous versions of Civ source code?
Some of you know that late last year I did indeed mail 2K with a formal proposal, which they ignored. Hence my cynicism of the code ever being made available.
So for the people that think there is a chance of getting 2K's attention and the source code, try that link.
BTW, you get the source code, I am sure you will have many willing C++ coders available to modify it.
jimmygeo
Warlord
A big amen to that! I got CIV as so as it came out and u/g my computer to take advantage of the graphics etc. Then I bought Warlords and played that all told for about five months. I've resisted getting BTS because I feel that Firaxis is taking us for a ride by 'barbie dolling' their games to get more money out of us. Besides, I don't like CIV and don't want to invest the time in learning to program the mods. I very much like Civ3's editor as limited as it is. At least you don't have to spend the time learning a whole new programming language and the trial and error of testing the mod. If the Civ3 editor were a little more extensive (as we are suggesting here), it would vastly improve an already great game.
jimmygeo
EmpressOfNona
Plotting your destruction
That's so true. I don't know about "abomination," but Civ 4 is definitely not good for modding if you're clueless about programming, like I am. Civ 3's way better for that purpose.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Batman, no one is talking about the code anymore. I mentioned it as a joke. But we are thinking of simply skipping civ4 and now we are talking about what we would like in civ5.
I_batman
Emperor
Hey, your choice.
I give you an opportunity to vent your frustration, plus take one last shot at getting the Holy Grail, the Civ III source code, on a Take2 run forum. Instead you want to talk about making a wish list for a game that may never be created, and if it is, will be years away. And you wish to do it on non-Take2 site.
Good luck with that.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
We ain`t getting the code, they said so in our faces, when the few of us were in that chat room.
Civ5 is 99% going to be created, its simply that kind of a franchise. They can`t lose.
And yes, I wish to do it on a non-Take2 site cos this is the largest online civ comunity. We compile a list. Co-operate with the civ4 fellas, since they already started their list, and then post it on a Take2 site.
Civ5 is 99% going to be created, its simply that kind of a franchise. They can`t lose.
And yes, I wish to do it on a non-Take2 site cos this is the largest online civ comunity. We compile a list. Co-operate with the civ4 fellas, since they already started their list, and then post it on a Take2 site.
vingrjoe
Landlocked Shipwright
I ended up buying CivIV, Warlords and BtS as each one was released, hoping to find my longing for good naval combat in the Civ series to be fulfilled. I was let down three times.
Now, I like the promotion ability, and even the ease of modding the xml files (after one becomes familiar with them), but the AI is still stupid in regards to warfare, especially naval warfare. It does not make proper use of modded xml files. For instance, I made the BB almost worthless at attacking subs, and made subs have an attack bonus versus carriers and such. I did not once see the AI set BBs up with escorts. Only on occassion did I see carriers with escorts. The AI in the CivIV series, still sends lone ships, or stacks of the same type of ship out to sea. Logical naval warfare isn't programmed into the AI. As with Civ3, it still mainly produces the biggest bang for the buck, no matter whether that ship can hunt and kill subs or not. Heck, the AI ddin't know how to use transports correctly until either Warlords or BtS came out. IMO, a newer version of a game, should be just as good, if not better than the previous version (ala Civ3 vs CivIV). I mean this in respect to AI behaviour, specifically in combat.
Another thing I don't like about the CivIV series is the Real Time Strategy attempt. I like it in Civ3 how when I was being bombed, it would show each aircraft in turn bombing. It may have taken awhile when being bombed by several aircraft, but it was nice to see it happen play by play. In CivIV, several combat events happen at once, and it almost becomes information overload. You have to scroll through an events log to see what in the world just happened.
I'm not as appalled with the gfx in CivIV as I used to be. To be honest, once a person learns how to rig and animate a model for CivIV, it probably takes alot less time to make units for CivIV than Civ3. However, I still do not care for low poly models.
I think the problem that plagues the Civ series, as well as many other RTS/TBS games, is that the people responsible for programming combat units and making the combat units for the games, do not know their a-- form their elbow about real world weapons (warships, aircraft, armor, etc) or any type of warfare, whether it be land, sea or air.
Now, I like the promotion ability, and even the ease of modding the xml files (after one becomes familiar with them), but the AI is still stupid in regards to warfare, especially naval warfare. It does not make proper use of modded xml files. For instance, I made the BB almost worthless at attacking subs, and made subs have an attack bonus versus carriers and such. I did not once see the AI set BBs up with escorts. Only on occassion did I see carriers with escorts. The AI in the CivIV series, still sends lone ships, or stacks of the same type of ship out to sea. Logical naval warfare isn't programmed into the AI. As with Civ3, it still mainly produces the biggest bang for the buck, no matter whether that ship can hunt and kill subs or not. Heck, the AI ddin't know how to use transports correctly until either Warlords or BtS came out. IMO, a newer version of a game, should be just as good, if not better than the previous version (ala Civ3 vs CivIV). I mean this in respect to AI behaviour, specifically in combat.
Another thing I don't like about the CivIV series is the Real Time Strategy attempt. I like it in Civ3 how when I was being bombed, it would show each aircraft in turn bombing. It may have taken awhile when being bombed by several aircraft, but it was nice to see it happen play by play. In CivIV, several combat events happen at once, and it almost becomes information overload. You have to scroll through an events log to see what in the world just happened.
I'm not as appalled with the gfx in CivIV as I used to be. To be honest, once a person learns how to rig and animate a model for CivIV, it probably takes alot less time to make units for CivIV than Civ3. However, I still do not care for low poly models.
I think the problem that plagues the Civ series, as well as many other RTS/TBS games, is that the people responsible for programming combat units and making the combat units for the games, do not know their a-- form their elbow about real world weapons (warships, aircraft, armor, etc) or any type of warfare, whether it be land, sea or air.
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
@I_batman
We didn't ever seriously want the code, we were just joking about it. And I do agree with everybody else that Civ4 is only moddable to the coding-sound, and not everybody is. In that regard, Civ3 is more moddable, and some people use creative ideas to alter some concepts, such as El Justo.
We didn't ever seriously want the code, we were just joking about it. And I do agree with everybody else that Civ4 is only moddable to the coding-sound, and not everybody is. In that regard, Civ3 is more moddable, and some people use creative ideas to alter some concepts, such as El Justo.
Similar threads
