Oracle guide

[Izuul]

I may try that just for kicks, but i have a feeling i won't be able to get the Oracle until the 1300 or 1400s.

You will need a Settler here to plant a city on that marble which changes the dynamics a bit. Skipping BW is definitely an option though that would be much easier with Pericles. Too bad the leader is Alex.

 

[ben-jammin]

maybe cre+philo leader would be better to bulb math.... I think that's Pericles, not sure now the starting techs of greece, would be best if AH is open right away.

I think greece has fishing, so maybe quick tw, pottery, writing can work too.

I figured Gandhi 'cause his starting techs are good, spiritual saves you a turn on slavery, fast workers save turns as well.

In the current IU Alex game I oracled construction on deity.

1280BC, so a longshot. I could have shaved 3 turns off that with another chop into the Oracle itself, I could have potentially saved 2 or 3 turns on the library with better whip timing. So still a gamble around 1500BC.

 

[dylanmeditates]

are y'all expecting to trade for HBR or are you just interested in catapults or will HBR get self-teched or wuz the plan?

was a big twist moving up from vanilla when all the sudden i needed HBR for my elephant armies...

i guess this thread has shifted from oracle pros/cons to the oracle>construction gambit... that's cool though. i'm certainly learning

 

[Izuul]

We're just messing around for the most part, but if you get Construction early you don't even need elephants with them. Axes or even Archers can provide enough support since the Cats do most of the work.

 

[Manco Capac]

Gotta love those lucky oracle shots.

 

[vranasm]

I lost the Oracle in 1500 BC on Immortal in the same IU game with Alexander btw

I could bulb the math around 1480BC, but didn't have prepared Oracle anyway.

 

[dylanmeditates]

so i'm getting that COL and MC are usual oracle techs. thoughts on oracle>aesthetics for quick great library? (especially if there is marble)

 

[Tempesta13]

so i'm getting that COL and MC are usual oracle techs. thoughts on oracle>aesthetics for quick great library? (especially if there is marble)

Oracle>CoL or MC gets you to those techs way faster than you'd normally get them and you'll beat all the AIs there. You will still be first to Aesthetics when you do this. However, if you Oracle>Aesthetics you won't still be first to CoL or MC. With marble you have no risk of losing the Great Library and getting it up earlier doesn't make up for not getting the more expensive (and better) tech (CoL or MC).

 

[ben-jammin]

We're just messing around for the most part, but if you get Construction early you don't even need elephants with them. Axes or even Archers can provide enough support since the Cats do most of the work.

You can also build cats while you research HBR, then switch to elephants. You don't NEED the elephants but in a stack with a couple axes your stack is invincible and you can often get 75%+ odds after bombarding away culture without even attacking with cats (and 90%+ with 1 round of collateral damage to each defender).

Dylanmeditates - aesthetics would be a waste, Tempesta covered why.

Tachy - I'm no deity expert but I'd think that 1380BC oracle isn't lucky. It's REALLY lucky Still, doable on that map in the 1500s which I think is about 50/50 chance that you get it on deity, no? The start isnt totally devoid of commerce with the corn/2x phants/Ghill all being riverside, but it's no triple gold.

 

[ben-jammin]

I lost the Oracle in 1500 BC on Immortal in the same IU game with Alexander btw

I could bulb the math around 1480BC, but didn't have prepared Oracle anyway.

I think I was able to bulb math in the 1600s but I still had to tech masonry before finishing the oracle. I think Gandhi on the same map might shave 2-3 additional turns off.

 

[Strickl3r]

I lost the Oracle 2 times around 1800 BC on deity in the Alex game, then tried a 3rd time without Oracle just to see it gets build in 1200 BC.

Oracle Construction is just gambling nothing else, also you don't get it early enough on this particular map+Alex is a bad leader...Cottages+early academy or bulbing math anyway and teching to Construction also does the job. Attack Dates with Elephants are overrated. Around 500-300 BC Elephants are totally fine as long as you are not facing other Elephants or Praetorians.
At least on the IU map with Alex that is.

just my 2 cents

 

[Izuul]

I tried it on the same map for kicks and finished in 1480BC by settling a 2nd city on the marble and delaying BW until after completing the Oracle. I also went straight for Writing and roaded in to Babylon early for trade routes. Alex really isn't a great leader for this, but he wasn't too bad here since Hunting is actually a pretty good starting tech on this map. Fishing is obviously a complete waste as is Agg.

You will notice in the picture that i popped gems, however i didn't get them until i was 1T from Med with only PH and Masonry still to tech. They probably helped me get PH and start on Oracle 1T earlier, and get Masonry for double production 2 turns earlier. I think i would've finished in 1400BC rather than 1480BC. That's still a bit of a gamble, but i think you will win the Oracle fairly often at that date on Immortal. Not so much on Deity though.

Overall, i think the Construction Oracle is pretty overrated. It certainly isn't what ZZZ cracks it up to be. I think you will frequently lose the Oracle trying to do this on Deity with an average start, and on any very high commerce start, skipping the Oracle and teching to Construction is probably just as good if not superior.

Spoiler :

 

[ben-jammin]

I'd say that even on immortal 1480BC is about 50/50, on deity that's maybe one in five.

I always thought of the Oracle as a way to make up for slow research by brokering MC or CoL around, not something you should aim for when you're already teching at light-speed.

 

[Fippy]

Alex is a bad leader...

Agree with your post, but not with this
No leader with PHI can be bad, average at worst.
Or maybe you are saying for Oracle, well for Construction Oracle he would probably be okay since he can bulb math faster.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Oracling Construction all comes down to bee lining Writing to start running specs to bulb Math ASAP. You do not need a double gem/gold start to do this, you actually want more food to do this so you can build settlers, and workers in a timely manner while getting Math. I always tech the Oracle techs last as if you miss the Oracle they are complete trash. Awhile ago I laid out a detailed guide on what the best techs to take from the Oracle were, and how to get them for Sun Tzu Wu. If anyone is really interested I will find it.

 

[dylanmeditates]

I laid out a detailed guide on what the best techs to take from the Oracle were, and how to get them for Sun Tzu Wu. If anyone is really interested I will find it.

I am really interested

 

[RJM]

I am a peaceful builder, playing at Emperor - winning ocasionally, but not consistently.

I don't think I've ever built the Oracle, but having read this thread I thought I'd give it a try. My tactical plan was to bulb Mathematics and then choose currency as my free tech. I made it work at the second attempt, and it does give a very strong boost to research. But, concentrating so many hammers on the library and the Oracle (plus running two scientists) left me with a very slow expansion and a weak military that made me vulnerable to barbs and any AI civ that wanted to take a pop at me. Perhaps it would be better to use more workers to chop out the library and the Oracle quicker. Perhaps the tactic works better with a philosophical leader. Perhaps it's a distraction to be avoided.

Thoughts?

 

[drewisfat]

I managed to Oracle Construnction in 1880 with Louis

Here is the start:

Spoiler :

Low food start but had that hill marble and gold. I rushed out cottages and the library and followed my heart (and brennus quigley) and delayed BW. Obviously I never would have done this in a real game as the beeline didn't leave much of an empire to work with, and if I missed the oracle it would have been disastrous. Bulbing math actually saved me only 1 turn from just slow teching math. I suppose in real game though bulbing would have allowed me to tech BW instead and mitigate risk.
In my first attempt i made a second city, but it slowed me down a bit.

Oracling construction seems viable but I think 1900BC is exaggerated. I'd wager to oracle construction without stunting their growth and taking a huge risk, a good player would get it more in the 1700BC - 1400BC range.

 

[klonoklown]

Oracling Construction all comes down to bee lining Writing to start running specs to bulb Math ASAP. You do not need a double gem/gold start to do this, you actually want more food to do this so you can build settlers, and workers in a timely manner while getting Math. I always tech the Oracle techs last as if you miss the Oracle they are complete trash. Awhile ago I laid out a detailed guide on what the best techs to take from the Oracle were, and how to get them for Sun Tzu Wu. If anyone is really interested I will find it.

I would be interested as well.

 

[Fippy]

Same guide like HA rush, with early library and maths bulb.
Still doesn't change that you slow down expansion with that method, for HAs doesn't matter much if AIs settle close...actually you might welcome that, but if the oracle goes on Deity you may be stuck with teching construction and that can be just too slow against some AIs.