Oracle wonder

[Pajka]

I'd like to start discussion on changing our research if we want to go for Oracle and CoL.
We just have finished Writing (the necessary prerequisite for CoL) and now we could start Meditation followed by Priesthood.
Then we can start researching the Alphabet and building the Oracle. Chop down some forests around BoW and get the Oracle and CoL and found our religion (it will help also with happiness)!

I just want to note, that I also voted for "Scientific path" as I wanted Writing to be discovered first (as it also gives the libraries), but now I would change as there was not an option for Writing+religion.

What are the opinions of others?

 

[robboo]

Its a big risk to try this "slingshot" and not get it. You essentially handcuff yourself to this path without any alternative. The drawbacks far outweigh the benefits in my opinion. IF we would have gone this route before hunting and archery, I would have thought we had a chance at it. Its almost to late to start this.

We are already behind Germany in power. To go this route and fail would cerainly drop us even further. Even if we get the CoL from the oracle the delay in prodcution from BW might make catching Gemany more difficult than it is now.



/IMO this tactic is a gimic..it works if you get it and if you dont your screwed.

 

[Pajka]

I don't think that it's too risky as even if we fail we'll get some gold and we can max the science again for a while. And for the lost production ... that isn't that bad as whole Oracle is just 5 axmen and we would catch up some time if we would chop down some trees.

IMO Germany isn't problem ... it's too far away. Mongols could be problem, but as I said we wouldn't lose that much time.

If Oracle works it's really great, if not I think it's not too bad, but maybe you're right.

Maybe I didn't chose the right thread title.
In fact my original idea was to improve happiness somehow and let BoW grow more and be more productive (Oracle+religion was just one possibility - the one I like) ... but we could also get Hereditary rule and make people happy by military units! I just feel that researching Alphabet takes very long time and is not the best we can get as exchanging tech with AI is pretty unfair in CIV4 (if they want to trade any at all).

 

[Tubby Rower]

As governor of Boaring Wallow, I would fight this proposal. Currently BW is the only semi-productive city. It's already pumped out 2 warriors, a barracks, 2 settlers and a worker. It's time to start on some defense.

In your original proposal you said that we could chop some forests to get the Oracle. Then you said in reply to robboo that we could chop some more forests to catch up in production if we miss it. Are you proposing that we clear cut around BW? I hope not. I won't stand by and watch our great capital become a concrete jungle.

 

[Pajka]

Yes, BoW has produced nearly everything we have, but that's mostly because it's nearly 3000 years old! I guess you'll agree on this.
You should start preparations for the 3000y of BoW celebration BTW
I guess we should mine all 3 hills around BoW. We have a lot of food, so we can work on all these low-food tiles and boost our production while still grow. But we need to increase happiness to be able to work all cottages and mines simultaneously.
And don't worry I don't want to remove the forests (just 1-2 of them plus the forested hill), I love to go for a walk in the woods around BoW too.

 

[robboo]

Chooping is a mixed bag. You get a quick production boost but you sacrifice long term benefits. Limited chopping is a better option. You chop as you need to get a boost ( ex a suprise war or a war for a resource that is needed).

I like only chopping between my fat crosses but that is just me. I also like chopping around enemy cities before the borders expand.

Give me those 5 axmen and a medic spear man..and I will give you the Mongolian capital and end any worries about him in the future. (Never to early to start my campaign as Sec of war.)

 

[Whomp]

I have mixed views on this. On the one hand the Oracle is exceptionally powerful since caste system in a food rich city can turn GP's like no one's business . There's also the side benefit getting religion. If were done my preference would to be in a 2nd or 3rd city. If it misses the gold would allow us to run deficit research.

Anyhow Boaring Wallow would not be the site for such a wonder and I don't think our other two cities are capable of doing it without plenty of chops.

It would have to be a total citizen focus to get it done.

 

[Pajka]

Give me those 5 axmen and a medic spear man..and I will give you the Mongolian capital and end any worries about him in the future.

Just ask the governors and already before we discover the Alphabet you can have even more than those 5 axemen!
Just BoW itself even with the actual happiness can do that if we mine the 2 hills (we can even save the forested hill for now).
We don't need to grow now ... it would bring just more unhappiness - so we don't have to use the pigs. Count with me:
size 6 - 1 unhappy - 5 worked tiles:
city tile: 2 food, 1 hammer, 1 commerce
3 floodplains w/ hamlets next to river: 9 food, 0 hammers, 9 commerce
1 grassland hill w/ mine: 1 food, 3 hammers, 0 commerce
1 plains hill w/ mine: 0 food, 4 hammers, 0 commerce
in total: 12 food, 8 hammers, 10 commerce
12 food for city size 6 = stagnant = Ok for now
8 hammers = axemen in 5.5 turns
commerce is pretty good in BoW 10+8(palace)+1(trade)
but back to the 5 axemen and the spearmen ... that's total of 6*43=258 plus we need to finish the barracks first (extra 39) ... then we need slightly more than 37 turns (297/8=37.125)
You can say that now the BoW has production just 4, but it can be immediatelly rised to 6 (if we switch from the pigs to forested plains) even if we still lack the mines
On the other hand there is our 3rd city with it's copper mine which can also supply few units even experienced (if it works the mine and builds barracks)
So let me wish you GOOD LUCK in your campaign against Mongols ... looking forward to see the head of the Mongolian ruler on a pole!

 

[GeorgeOP]

And what God would your proposed Oracle venerate?

 

[Whomp]

Confucianism and Taoism.

 

[GeorgeOP]

Then i shall have to vote against any religious building that does not honor Chip in all his glory.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Excellent.... Bob will rule then.

 

[Swissempire]

I'm pro all wonders, and evryoneknows that apollo is just CHip misppelledin greek,duh