Orbis - the original thread

[Dzhel]

It's no surprise that different people simply like different aspects of the games they play. The world would be boring if everyone was the same.

As for me, I like the added complexity. I'm such a fan of variety and depth that I don't even care if units or abilities become somewhat redundant (I'm not saying this is the case, just explaining my point of view), I just like variety. Perfectly fine that others prefer a more "efficient" approach.

For backstory, I must admit that I rarely read it or play my games based on it. I like to make the backstory up as I go. As long as I understand what it's supposed to do, I'm fine with minimal pedia entries.

Where economy is concerned, I haven't been able to pin it down. As Kuriotates, my economy took off and I was well ahead of my enemies (Noble difficulty). As Mazatl, I was struggling. It was only one game apiece so I don't know if it was luck or some fundamental difference. I don't even really know how I'd investigate one economy vs. another.

 

[Quetz]

FF now that I played Orbis.

I hate to say it but I agree after seeing the feature list. I kind of skipped over Orbi before, buit after seeing what's in it I doubt I'll go back to FF - Orbi seems much more my style.

The problem is the AI, as usual, since I easily gain a huge advantage in unit quality.

This is an issue that has plagued FFh since it came out. I believe that a lot of it stems from the empowered promotions. While they sound good and people would probably cry a mile of tears if they were removed, they really are not good for the AI (I'm talking about how FFh doubled the bonuses all promotions give.) Change them back to the default civ4 values and I gaurantee the AI will be stronger.

As for backstory, its neat and all, but I really don't care. I'd rather have a quick blurb outlining the gameplay effects of a spell/unit than 3 pages of lore that don't really tell me anything.

 

[Wauthan]

It's no surprise that different people simply like different aspects of the games they play. The world would be boring if everyone was the same.

Very true Dzhel. Very true. The more I think about it the more I believe that the real reason behind my post is simply gamers fatigue. There haven't really been any game that caught my interest in the last year or so, which means I've stuck to Civ 4. Playing Orbis "non stop" since July 12th last year makes it fairly obvious why I feel a bit less charmed by it now.

Guess it's high time to return to lurking. Thanks again for all your hard work Ahwaric.

 

[Opera]

The background of all minor leaders are completelly empty as well as several techonogies, UUs and UBs, and civics. Things like that can be done by anyone who knows FFH2 lore but theese details are starting to lose their charm to the ones who already red them because they were never actualized. FFH2 has good modders but I think there's a lack of writers willing to work whith civilopedia.

That's funny, because I always wondered what was the story of those minor leaders. I know they are in some FfH scenarios, so maybe Kael and all have an idea about their story; however, maybe Ahwaric just doesn't have time to think/write a story about each minor leader.

Edit: I understand now why no one founded Cult of the Dragon in my game; I don't think I have updated to patch b BTW, any idea of when will patch c be released?

 

[Jabie]

For example, from where comes Verocchio? Personality? I'm sure it's not a random character you invented, and if it is, more reason to support him with a background. And Maer? Who she is? What about Boris? Also, mechanos text entry can be amplified.
...
Orbi as well needs either you working the civilopedia or the aid of someone with an advanced english dominion and willingness to write.

Sounds like a challenge. Here's a suggestion for Boris:

What thoughts for the machine? How can you deny the guilt when even your tears stalk the earth crushing those who would oppose its ruin? How cold the sense of isolation when nature lies dead and frost seizes all in its thrall? But for memories of the world as was, would the world always be white? And what would it be worse to surrender the memories of better times or to discard the error that it might be repeated? For when can the pain ever grow numb, when even the escape of dream is denied. Let the memories of all that is hateful, of all the sin and guilt run through the cracks of the earth, that they might burn in the fires beyond.

When Baranaxus, acting on the inscrutable commands that even he did not understand, crafted Ice Golems for the great god Mulcarn, he chose to forget all that he had done, forever cursed to repeat his mistake until Spring dawned upon Erebus. Every regret was ejected in a cascade of sparks, fleeting moments that die upon the wind.

But no sin is truly vanquished without repentance. The shadow thoughts drifted forgotten in dark corners until they found a home they recognised. Settling in the cogs and the camshafts and the gears and the cranks, the first machine spirits were born. Swearing revenge on the gods that had forgotten the world, they sought to bring about new age without gods: the Age of Machines.

All they needed was a body.

 

[Dzhel]

Granted I'm not that great a player so the AI problem is something I haven't even noticed. Does increasing the difficulty help? Perhaps opening the world builder and giving the AI a little advanced start with tech and/or troops to keep the action flowing. Not sure if that might help a bit or not.

Balance always seems to be a very difficult thing to achieve in games between different factions. I'm always worried that balanced turns into boring to even the playing field and homogenize the capabilities. Not saying it can't be done, just tricky. It really is just my preference, but if I have to choose, I like diversity over balance at least in single player (which is all I play for Civ). Multi-player is different for me, I lean more towards balance there.

 

[Opera]

I just finished my Svarts game. Mastery victory at turn 610; score: 46847! I never did that good! I'm so happy! However, something pissed me off: I built an entropy node for the Necromancy Tower and Basium got -8 with me for that. After I built the tower, I razed the node... but it didn't help: Khset/Basium (alliance) declared war on me, 18 turns away from victory. Well, it was just a pain in the ass to manage troops while I could have just waited some turns... Eventually, I razed one city with my stack of doom (in fact, mostly with my numerous Illusionist) and I signed a peace treaty. Great game. Never played any like that before!

 

[arbor]

I would not give +1 food on tundra for Illians.
The same problem like before: if you build the temple you lose food (tundra->ice) and it can make cities starve. I would suggest to give 1 or 2 squares of crystal plains (or swamp/flood plains if they do not start on ice?) on the starting place or maybe give crystal plains +2 food -1 production (to make it same as swamp/flood plains) - however, but not add more fields that loose food for the temples cause.

 

[vdex34]

any idea of when will patch c be released?

Ahwaric, I think you should wait for the .40z graphic patch before releasing c. It looks to be promising.

 

[arkham4269]

...which means I've stuck to Civ 4. Playing Orbis "non stop" since July 12th last year makes it fairly obvious why I feel a bit less charmed by it now.

It does help that you have to play like a maniac to get a game finished before it is patched into oblivion!

Not that that is a bad thing. Again I can't think of any other game that has the modder support to keep people coming back to the same game time after time. Could you imagine playing something even as interesting in the way of a FPS like Left 4 Dead that long? I highly doubt it.

 

[arkham4269]

Sounds like a challenge. Here's a suggestion for Boris:

But no sin is truly vanquished without repentance. The shadow thoughts drifted forgotten in dark corners until they found a home they recognised. Settling in the cogs and the camshafts and the gears and the cranks, the first machine spirits were born. Swearing revenge on the gods that had forgotten the world, they sought to bring about new age without gods: the Age of Machines.

All they needed was a body.

I like this, but another angle is something I've been mentioning in the sense of Kami. Most Eastern thought says there is a Divine Spark in everything. Unlike the Force, it isn't limited to just life. Rocks have it, mountains have it; it is everywhere.

So in a magical world, is it surprising that robots would have it? First off, golems are not robots; they are magically animated bodies.

Another thought would be that in Erebus, a lot of folks are trying to 'cheat' the system. Usually that system is Death. So without getting high-tech and doing cloning, you might try to become immortal by grafting your soul into a machine and literally become a "Ghost in the Machine" - Thus you take a common cyberpunk theme and give it a magical twist. Instead of downloading your memories into a Replicant, you are magically transferring your soul.

I think you could experiment with that idea by having Mechanos units of a certain level later in the game be able to 'upgrade' to the "Clockwork Golem" which isn't really a golem but a robot. You could say only those who really have been tested can survive the process.

Another idea is that of the necro-troops. Frankenstein/Boris is an example of it as is Robocop. Basically you are reanimating dead flesh to create controllable zombies. (Yes, I know, I have zombies on the brain: it was my first CivFanatic icon)

But seriously, perhaps a techno-mage might have the ability to create the necro-troops after attack/defending and killing a live unit. These necro-troops would have the slow ability but would be tough to kill. One might give them the guardsman promotion to represent they hare the techno-mages zombie-guards.

BTW, other than some odd OO ritual, anyone think it might be cool to be able to take slaves and create those crazed guys from the Beastmaster movie?

 

[Seon]

Las Plagas from Resident Evil?

 

[Ahwaric]

the combination of the 2 scientistguilds ist just way overpowered. founding both of them in my capital and spreading them in my 10 citys (kuriotates on standard -> 3 cities, 7 settlements) lead to me finishing research in turn 266 on emperor. while i research future tech 5 basium appears and most other civs dont even have iron working.

You might want to increase your difficulty. One of the guilds requires alchemy, the other sorcery, both quite late techs. Also, you need 2 great scientists...
If you managed to do it and then get to Future tech before everyone lese was able to get iron working, I prefer not to ask what their tech level was when you got the guilds...
But I will check if they need tweaking

Needs more text. Orbi as well needs either you working the civilopedia or the aid of someone with an advanced english dominion and willingness to write.
Another point are civics and traits. If you could make more advanced options to be available to be changed by XML it would encourage people with no knowlege to do their own little changes as they see fit.

I agree on the text, but when I see buigs, it is hard to just sit and write stories... Especially with me level of english...
Regarding xml, I try to make it as easy as possible. Plenty of Xienwolf's (and other's) code was imported into SDK, also the editor makes modders life much easier. Check it if you can - unfortunatelly it requires Office 2007 and I do not know Open office good enough to convert it

I consider myself (or at least my parents) pretty good at Eastern Lore, especially China, Japan, and Korea .

Glad to hear it China, but also Korea and Japan, are going to be the main flavour for the civ.

Very true Dzhel. Very true. The more I think about it the more I believe that the real reason behind my post is simply gamers fatigue.
Guess it's high time to return to lurking. Thanks again for all your hard work Ahwaric.

Please no! A bucket of cold water is needed too, and that is just a tiny part of the feedback you provided

Sounds like a challenge. Here's a suggestion for Boris:

Thanks a lot, it will definetly be in. I am not sure about Boris (I have planned some kind of lab log for his pedia entry), but there are many other entries that can use this text. Especially Goliath, it can go in there without changes. Would it be ok?

I just finished my Svarts game. Mastery victory at turn 610; score: 46847! [...] Never played any like that before!

What else can I say...

Ahwaric, I think you should wait for the .40z graphic patch before releasing c. It looks to be promising.

That is the plan. Kael said it should be out this weekend.

Thus said, I officially declare this thread finished...
Thunderfall was kind enough to provide us with a separate subforum in the modmods section. This thread was hard to read recently, so I hope it will be easier to discuss separate topics now.

 

[xienwolf]

Gratz on the new forum I wonder if that means Fall Further is going to get moved into here alongside, paving the way in case of other modmods with rabid followings

Don't forget to ask Woodelf or another Mod to move this thread into your forum as well. At least for old times sake (but mostly so you don't have to remember to check for posts out here when people fail to notice you are a superstar with your own changing room )

 

[Pohlmann]

the problem is: if u manage to get both guilds and spread them quickly, u need 40 turns to research the whole rest of all technologies. it took me 10 turns to research all endlevel techs for example thx to overflow from the "cheap" 4000 techs. usually i have a rough time on emperor but this game i might have won on deity level

 

[Swodhawk]

Hi Ahwaric,

Do not have a lot of time these days to enjoy your mod, but FFH+Orbi remains the only video game I do ever play. Well I have a fondness for King of Dragon Pass, but that has not been launched here for quite some long months.

Done with the flattery

Speaking of art, I really enjoyed the figure of the Bannor Champion in Orbi, and I understand that it will be replaced with a new one made by seZ.

Why not keeping it and maybe altering its shield to make it a crusarder of Order, which if I remember well look a bit outdated?

Keep up the excellent work!

 

[Jabie]

Thanks a lot, it will definetly be in. I am not sure about Boris (I have planned some kind of lab log for his pedia entry), but there are many other entries that can use this text. Especially Goliath, it can go in there without changes. Would it be ok?

Please feel free. Hopefully this provides a suitable background for the Mechanos, their agnosticism and faith in machinery.

Congrats on the new forum. Feel free to publish anything any other text entries you want a hand with.

 

[tyranny12]

EDIT:
Could not say it better myself. Any feedback, especially with precise proposals, is welcomed.

Then I will draft something better than my old initial thread up - that only had the existing tree, and yours is already quite different.

 

[civ_king]

If they have tech-mages, everything must come from technology, they have forsaken magic basically(arcane and divine)

 

[Pohlmann]

i got another question i didnt find anything about.

its the minor trait. what is its use? dont they just weaken average leaders to weak ones? the balseraph minor leaders might be of some use but others are just crap. i liked having additional leaders in my games but they shouldnt be weaker