O'Reilly admits what his fellow-travelers will not

[MobBoss]

Why can't you two agree to the obvious, their domination is caused by a combination of genetics and culture. One alone could never explain it.

I agree with you and that has been my opinion from the beginning.

 

[C~G]

There have been studies of this issue and example (if I remember this correctly) danish kids trained as hard if not harder than kids in those african countries but still the danish kids in general (except few inviduals) were behind Kenyans.

Better genes towards specific action gives one better chance to succeed but only if one takes that chance and uses it as effectively as he can.

Second illusion in sports is that training hard gets you somewhere when it's actually training right.

But this has gone really offtopic already...

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

traditionally, women are caregivers and homemakers. Some women are increasingly choosing to defy nature, but that makes it no less true...

...I don't mind minority race Americans, but an important part of what makes a cohesive national identity is the color of your skin/ethnic background...

...As far as non-whites are concerned, of course it would be a bad thing if they ran the country. If you look at the statistics based on crime and societal ills, the minorities in this country, for the most part, dominate them....

DUDE!

Listen to yourself!

This thread has descended to a whole new level of ********. even for CFC. You guys should invite back that guy who kept going on about how IQ tests proved Hispanics are lazy.

/me takes a loooong vacation from this sh*t.

 

[Red Door]

Why can't you two agree to the obvious, their domination is caused by a combination of genetics and culture. One alone could never explain it.

Because there is no gene for "running speed" or "running strength," if there it is, please point it out to me, I believe we've mapped out the whole gene map of a human being.

 

[MobBoss]

Because there is no gene for "running speed" or "running strength," if there it is, please point it out to me, I believe we've mapped out the whole gene map of a human being.

However, there are genes that dictate basic body type (endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph) and also muscular development. Genes also define muscle types. There are slight differences in muscle fibers that can, for example, make someone a far better sprinter than an endurance runner.

From this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle#Characteristics_of_muscle_types you can plainly see that yes indeed there are genes that dictate your potential 'running speed' and/or 'running endurance'. So your allegation that there is no gene for this is precisely wrong. Such things are indeed genetic and can thus be racial/ethnic in application.

 

[Rhymes]

I hat do admit it AlCosta, but MobBoss has got it, there is no gene for "running speed" or so, but genes have a direct or indirect way to affect a person's running speed. There is, for example, a gene for muscular mass, which affects how fast you can run.

And some genes are found in different concentration in different races, so it's only normal to find racial genetics edges in some domains.

 

[MobBoss]

I hat do admit it AlCosta, but MobBoss has got it, there is no gene for "running speed" or so, but genes have a direct or indirect way to affect a person's running speed. There is, for example, a gene for muscular mass, which affects how fast you can run.

And some genes are found in different concentration in different races, so it's only normal to find racial genetics edges in some domains.

Precisely and thanks!

 

[ComradeDavo]

Well you made a statement about faschism in america and made the requirement comment - so if no one said it was a requirement then what is the basis for your statement in regards to faschism and requirements?

Well pardon me for pointing out when you make crap up.

If your going to resort to calling my posts 'crap' then I don't wish to debate with you. I've reported you for flaming.

 

[MobBoss]

If your going to resort to calling my posts 'crap' then I don't wish to debate with you. I've reported you for flaming.

Your post wasnt crap.......your allegation that said being a white male christian was a requirement for leadership in the USA was. No one said this. Anywhere. And when I call you on it you get upset.

And btw, posting about reporting someone is trolling as well, so please report yourself too.

 

[Red Door]

However, there are genes that dictate basic body type (endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph) and also muscular development. Genes also define muscle types. There are slight differences in muscle fibers that can, for example, make someone a far better sprinter than an endurance runner.

From this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle#Characteristics_of_muscle_types you can plainly see that yes indeed there are genes that dictate your potential 'running speed' and/or 'running endurance'. So your allegation that there is no gene for this is precisely wrong. Such things are indeed genetic and can thus be racial/ethnic in application.

Point taken. But, that doesn't mean they'll automatically be champions. They have to work for it still. Just because they're Kenyan doesn't mean they'll win the New York Marathon, they still train and work to get there, do you not agree?

 

[MobBoss]

Point taken. But, that doesn't mean they'll automatically be champions. They have to work for it still. Just because they're Kenyan doesn't mean they'll win the New York Marathon, they still train and work to get there, do you not agree?

Sure I agree. However, my point was, and still continues to be, training only takes you so far. Genetics is the real factor in how they perform, not training. You see, anyone from around the world can train just like the athletes from Kenya, anyone. They dont have some 'hidden secret' training that they only keep to themselves. But what they do have is something in their genetic makeup that gives them above average endurance in their cardio/pulminary muscles and also in the long muscle tissue of their legs. Basically, Kenyans are ectomorphs - very skinny with long muscles perfect for long distance running.

Now then, lets compare that with another race of people....say Samoan. Racially, Samoans are traditionally endomorphs....they are often really big and muscular body types. Racially, they are not pre-disposed to running a marathon at all. You could train a Samoan in the Kenyan style of marathon running his entire life, but he wont ever be the equal of an ectomorphic Kenyan in running a marathon. However, if they ever got a Kenya in grabbing distance it would be all over.

Now do you see how genetics and race/ethnicity can play a factor in this like I have been maintaining this whole thread?

 

[Red Door]

Now do you see how genetics and race/ethnicity can play a factor in this like I have been maintaining this whole thread?

You can train any person to do anything, if they try hard enough, they might be able to win. It's unlikely, but it can happen. One Samoan faring well in middle-distance running is Setefano Mika.

 

[MobBoss]

You can train any person to do anything, if they try hard enough, they might be able to win. It's unlikely, but it can happen. One Samoan faring well in middle-distance running is Setefano Mika.

Again, there are exceptions to every rule. Are Samoans dominating middle-distance like the Kenyans do Marathons? Nope. Do you have any information on a Samoan marathoner? No. But there are plenty of Samoans that are very athletic and do well in sports...especially american football. You pointing out a single Samoan that is merely 'competitive' in middle distance actually gives more validity to my arguement.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Discussing a point and clarifying it isnt semantics.

You're trying to bog down your assertion that some races are better at certain things than others with pointless semantics. You made a racist statement.

No, I asked why is it that Kenyans dominate the NYC marathon. Which they do. Do you deny this? And its more than they are good runners, they are good 'Marathoners'.

Like AlCosta said. Does it have anything to do with genetics and/or race that Canada produces such fantastic hockey players? Of course not. It's that hockey is Canada's national sport, Canadians spend way more than any other country on hockey, and there are way more Canadians willing to spend time putting effort into the sport than in the rest of the world combined. I guess that Canadians are better at playing hockey on average means that Canadians are racially superior to the rest of the hockey world.

And I am clarifying my position under your unwarrented attack. Do you deny that culture and ethnicity come into play along with race and gender in such matters? I dont.

Race doesn't matter worth squat. You did not say ethnicity, you did not say culture. You said that "some races are better at certain things than others." This is racism. Come off it.

No, in my mind there is a reason that Kenyans win the NYC Marathon over and over. I guess you think its mere luck. I dont.

As AlCosta said, Kenyans place marathon running in much higher esteem than most other nations, and are willing to put more effort into it than other peoples, on average. It has nothing to do with race, what the hell is so hard to understand about that? If an all-star Kenyan runner has a child, he or she will or will not become an all-star runner based on things completely different from race.

Do you really think everyone; race and gender; are all identical? That none of us are special in a particular way?

Our differences have nothing to do with race, for Christ's sake. Are you so blatantly racist that you can't understand that?

Oh wait, you're the guy who said "some races are better at certain things than others," so the answer is yes.

You are the only one I see attacking me with this allegation. Have you not noticed that you are apparently alone in this regard?

Everyone else must be making for the popcorn cupboard.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Your post wasnt crap.......your allegation that said being a white male christian was a requirement for leadership in the USA was. No one said this. Anywhere. And when I call you on it you get upset.

And btw, posting about reporting someone is trolling as well, so please report yourself too.

Why don't you actually read what i've posted? I have made it perfectly clear what I mean.

It's stories like this that lead to the word 'fascist' being sent in the Americna establishments direction.

The very idea of 'white, christian, male' being a requirment for power has of course fascistic overtones, and thats putting it mildly.

''They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I,''

He's basically saying that he wants the US to stay that way....i.e be run by people who meet that criteria.

Look - I live in a different country from you and in a very different social situation and that means I often use words in different contexts. To me saying that you want to stick to a status quo is like saying you want it to be a requirement....abiet not legally...whilst you seem to take the word requirement in it's literal sense of legality.

It's a moot point, I'd rather focus on the story than differences in use of language.

And by moot point I mean irrelevant

If you actually go back and read through this thread, you'll see that I actually never said that he said it was a reuirerment.

You are totally detracting form my point that it's stories like this which leads to the word fascist being thrown around, because of his implied desire to stick to a status quo of 'white, male, christian' as those in power.

I have already explained that I was just using the word 'requirement' in the sense that O'Reily has implied that he belives 'white, chrisdtian, male' should be the status quo. There is no need to debate any more about that. Why don't you debate the story rather than just attaking me on my use of language?

 

[GoodGame]

I think part of the difference between this and say Imus's comments (about a black female basketball team) is pretty simple. O'Reilly's basically saying what he thinks the status quo is, but he's not denigrating minorities, etc.. He's basically just talking about political strategies and compositions (even if it's ugly). Imus (who I always took as a liberal) was going for cheap laughs and it backfired on him. Probably if you asked a bunch of people on the street about O'Reilly's comments, they'd say 'yes' that is the status quo, regardless of whether or not they liked that status quo.

I honestly don't agree that that is the 100% accurate status quo these days, though it once was.

If anything, I think O'Reilly was trying to bait McCain into saying something compromising, as I'd consider O'Reilly to be a bit leftist.

For the record I believe in meritocracy, not racist fundamentalism.

 

[amaterasu]

Couple of thoughts. Kenya isnt the only place in which runners train at altitude, is it? Neither do I believe that Kenyens merely train harder and longer than others. Things such as training time and conditions can be purely identical and repeatable all over the world....and yet Kenyans win. Sorry, but saying they train at altitude, longer and harder doesnt explain it for the simple reason anyone can do this and still cant match the Kenyan performance....ergo, there must be something in addition to training environment that is having an effect.

What you list here just isnt satisfactory enough to explain their dominance.



Errrr. Why?

But in kenya most of the place is highlands, but there is a small amount of genetics( like how the inca had stronger hearts) but mainly conditioning, they are just about always at high atlitudes, so they are far more used to the less oygen rich air.

@ al costa, I did not subscirbe to the steortype, put a dutch man in kenya from birth with a good traning regieme and I maintain he will be just as good, despite the netherlands ( where his genes would come frm ) being flat as pancake.

 

[MobBoss]

You're trying to bog down your assertion that some races are better at certain things than others with pointless semantics. You made a racist statement.

Not all statements about race are racist and not all statements about race are incorrect.

Like AlCosta said. Does it have anything to do with genetics and/or race that Canada produces such fantastic hockey players? Of course not.

Hockey is different than marathon running. And Canadians dont dominate hockey to the extent Kenyans dominate marathons either.

It's that hockey is Canada's national sport, Canadians spend way more than any other country on hockey, and there are way more Canadians willing to spend time putting effort into the sport than in the rest of the world combined. I guess that Canadians are better at playing hockey on average means that Canadians are racially superior to the rest of the hockey world.

Sigh. You take a team sport like hockey and try to compare it to an individual sport like running a marathon. They just are not comparable.

Race doesn't matter worth squat.

I think a whole lot of people would disagree with you on that.

You did not say ethnicity, you did not say culture.

Actually, I have been referring to all of it all through this discussion.

You said that "some races are better at certain things than others." This is racism. Come off it.

Stop cherrypicking. Look at my entire statement. You are so busy to attack me for being a racist you have blinded yourself to what the hell I said in context. AND you have been totally unable to explain the points I brought up....why? Because the examples I brought up are examples where race and genetics do make a difference.

Also, exactly which race am I being racist against in that statement Pasi? I am saying a particular race is being better than another specifically? HELL NO. So stop your baderging. Its weak.

As AlCosta said, Kenyans place marathon running in much higher esteem than most other nations

You just dont get it do you? Marathon is an individual sport which means people can train just like the Kenyans (and most likely do) all around the world. Again, training only takes you so far. Thats the reason your precious Canadians dont dominate hockey around the world the way the Kenyans DO dominate marathon.

and are willing to put more effort into it than other peoples, on average. It has nothing to do with race, what the hell is so hard to understand about that? If an all-star Kenyan runner has a child, he or she will or will not become an all-star runner based on things completely different from race.

Sorry, bub, but its more than just training. If it were just training, they wouldnt own over 2/3rds of the top 50 times in Marathon today. Because the Canadians ability is hockey isnt racial is why they havent won 2/3rds of the Gold medals in hockey in the Olympics...other countries have equal ability. But we dont see that in marathon now do we?

In more than just a few things genetics does make the difference.

Our differences have nothing to do with race, for Christ's sake. Are you so blatantly racist that you can't understand that?

Are you so blatently politically correct that you cant admit that racial genetics does make us different? Again, why do some races of people have longer life spans? Why are some more susceptable to some diseases?

Oh wait, you're the guy who said "some races are better at certain things than others," so the answer is yes.

And who am I being racist against there Pasi? Please tell me. Racism needs a victim, so exactly WHO is the victim of that sentence?

ANSWER THE QUESTION.

EDIT: Tell you what Pasi, if you are so convinced that my statement was just outrageously racist, then just report it and move on and let the mods deal with it. Because frankly, I am tired of hearing you whine about cherry picked out of context comments. I have more than made my point with you on this topic, and you havent effectively refuted anything I have put forth. So, I think we are pretty much done here.

 

[MobBoss]

But in kenya most of the place is highlands, but there is a small amount of genetics( like how the inca had stronger hearts) but mainly conditioning, they are just about always at high atlitudes, so they are far more used to the less oygen rich air.

Do we not have highlands in the USA? Yes. Mexico? Yes. Japan? Yes. Other countries around the world? Yes.

This isnt a case where Kenya has the only highlands to train at in the entire world. Those conditions can be repeated and duplicated eleswhere.

@ al costa, I did not subscirbe to the steortype, put a dutch man in kenya from birth with a good traning regieme and I maintain he will be just as good, despite the netherlands ( where his genes would come frm ) being flat as pancake.

I dont think so, but that is merely my opinion. If the guys genetics indicate he will be a big viking-esqe muscular type then he will never, ever be as good at marathon as the ectomorphic Kenyans, regardless of the amount of training he does.

Again, genetics dictate what you are ultimately capable of, training merely gets you to that point.