OSG 11 -- UnderKittens Story
- Thread starter OlorinStormcrow
- Start date
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
preturn:Well seems things are getting dour. two bad events I can see, spud is radiated and rana has its suprnova getting sued by the MPAA (pun intended) To wit, a vote in 15 years and our planets are busy building up much needed shields.
The psilons have continued their land grab as well grabbing the planets we failed to own due to no range tech. The random number genorator is hating on us. Not a whole lot to do other than start on the pop guns that will attack the bugs.
Only real tweak I give is pumping 100% into terriforming at galos as it's at a nice production value.
[1]2431 GNN comes up to let me know Rana can barely research her own legal battles. Psilons are seding an unescorted 2x colony ships to the purple planet south of rana/yarrow... see if I have enough pop guns there. Send over 50 from gallos to arrive same time.
[2]2432 Psilons come and give us the "stop taking over the world" message... they are back to dead neutral. Incidently they rose to relaxed again by end of turn set.
Weapons and contruction are at 2% with home building popguns.
[3]2433 whole lotta beakers about to be dropped, too soon to yell and rant.
[4]2434 big fight at purple planet!!!!(Ajax) We beat back the two colony at the cost of about 30 popguns.
[5]2435
Galos is now full terriformed AND 70 population (unless attacked!) pulling in 9.7 factories a turn, at 10 I hit shields.
4 techs (prop planet con weapons) are at the low %
The pop guns I'm making at home are going to ajax.
[6]2436 propulsion comes in for sublight and only option???? yes, no range techs, we get fusion drives as only option. WTH.
Psilons sending a lone colony to ajax....
popgun is able to upgrade engines np I'm gonna wait on weapons and con to come in before starting version 3.0
[7]2437 Wow nice, Hard beam comes in and some bad news, no missle techs - at all.... sigh. We do have omaga V bombs on the menu though and we will need then against the brains.
I took a screen but nowhere to be seen so....
Gatling lasers
Fusion Bombs
Ion cannon
Neutron Blaster
Graviton Beam
Fusion Beam
Omega-V bombs <-nice
Anti matter Trops
Fusion rifle
And I go fusion bombs of course. We need real bombs bad!
Btw a hard beam is 132 spaces nominally and a popgun has a total of 52 spaces right now... rofl.
I seed a colony ship at home hoping for a planetary break.
[8]2438
Wow well contruction came in giving us auto repair, it's not planetology but it'll do!
Only choice is reduced factory cost 6 sigh.
Ok so time for NPG 3.0
Sporting a pellet gun, Sublight drives at max manuver, a stabilizer and whopping shields 1 for an added cost of 1 bringing the total to 17 BC . imo adding the shields for 1 gold is a good deal, a 33% increase in paper plane fortitude From 3+0 to 3+1 and only a modest increase in overall cost. oh and auto repair... *blink*
Oh and rana beat the MPAA's lawyers, filesharing against the brains is safe for another round!
doh forgot to start galos' shields... well 12 factories a turn there is nice.
Make a placeholder huge to avoid making an LR dead at home. Accidentally forgot to take it out of the design before zipping the save.
[9]2439 psilon Colony arrives at ajax and runs from the popguns Home had been shipping over. That should it for the fight for ajax hopefully.
[10]2440 omogomgomg Radiated plenets comes in and we have....
Death spores
Inferno
Terriforming +40
Cloning
Atmospheric Terriforming <-- nice but appears we missed terran
Advanced Eco Rest
I go for the +40 of course.
Colony rad 3 is designed with sublight drives (ergo the 3) and is due next turn at home. There's no point redirecting the colony since Ajax is only 5 parsec from home and to get to yarrow/rana is 4 parsecs....
I tweaked research a bit to speed up fusion bombs, stealing from planetology since we got radiated. Once we nail fusion bombs drath, imo put the research back into planet.
Yarrow and rana are pumping out pop3.0's as fast as they can and dumping towards Galos. Galos should be on it's feet during your turnset, moneky with the shields/industry.
Bugs have stinger missles and will trade them for inertial devices... I was hoping for a missle tech in the tree tho so I'll leave a trade like that up to the rest of you guys.
Anyway sorry for the huge delay. The combinaion of a stomach flu and missed work is never fun. This simply isn;t the stage of the game to whack end turn 10x and I wanted it to be played with at least half a mind.
Cheers!
-Liq
The psilons have continued their land grab as well grabbing the planets we failed to own due to no range tech. The random number genorator is hating on us. Not a whole lot to do other than start on the pop guns that will attack the bugs.
Only real tweak I give is pumping 100% into terriforming at galos as it's at a nice production value.
[1]2431 GNN comes up to let me know Rana can barely research her own legal battles. Psilons are seding an unescorted 2x colony ships to the purple planet south of rana/yarrow... see if I have enough pop guns there. Send over 50 from gallos to arrive same time.
[2]2432 Psilons come and give us the "stop taking over the world" message... they are back to dead neutral. Incidently they rose to relaxed again by end of turn set.
Weapons and contruction are at 2% with home building popguns.
[3]2433 whole lotta beakers about to be dropped, too soon to yell and rant.
[4]2434 big fight at purple planet!!!!(Ajax) We beat back the two colony at the cost of about 30 popguns.
[5]2435
Galos is now full terriformed AND 70 population (unless attacked!) pulling in 9.7 factories a turn, at 10 I hit shields.
4 techs (prop planet con weapons) are at the low %
The pop guns I'm making at home are going to ajax.
[6]2436 propulsion comes in for sublight and only option???? yes, no range techs, we get fusion drives as only option. WTH.
Psilons sending a lone colony to ajax....
popgun is able to upgrade engines np I'm gonna wait on weapons and con to come in before starting version 3.0
[7]2437 Wow nice, Hard beam comes in and some bad news, no missle techs - at all.... sigh. We do have omaga V bombs on the menu though and we will need then against the brains.
I took a screen but nowhere to be seen so....
Gatling lasers
Fusion Bombs
Ion cannon
Neutron Blaster
Graviton Beam
Fusion Beam
Omega-V bombs <-nice
Anti matter Trops
Fusion rifle
And I go fusion bombs of course. We need real bombs bad!
Btw a hard beam is 132 spaces nominally and a popgun has a total of 52 spaces right now... rofl.
I seed a colony ship at home hoping for a planetary break.
[8]2438
Wow well contruction came in giving us auto repair, it's not planetology but it'll do!
Only choice is reduced factory cost 6 sigh.
Ok so time for NPG 3.0
Sporting a pellet gun, Sublight drives at max manuver, a stabilizer and whopping shields 1 for an added cost of 1 bringing the total to 17 BC . imo adding the shields for 1 gold is a good deal, a 33% increase in paper plane fortitude From 3+0 to 3+1 and only a modest increase in overall cost. oh and auto repair... *blink*
Oh and rana beat the MPAA's lawyers, filesharing against the brains is safe for another round!
doh forgot to start galos' shields... well 12 factories a turn there is nice.
Make a placeholder huge to avoid making an LR dead at home. Accidentally forgot to take it out of the design before zipping the save.
[9]2439 psilon Colony arrives at ajax and runs from the popguns Home had been shipping over. That should it for the fight for ajax hopefully.
[10]2440 omogomgomg Radiated plenets comes in and we have....
Death spores
Inferno
Terriforming +40
Cloning
Atmospheric Terriforming <-- nice but appears we missed terran
Advanced Eco Rest
I go for the +40 of course.
Colony rad 3 is designed with sublight drives (ergo the 3) and is due next turn at home. There's no point redirecting the colony since Ajax is only 5 parsec from home and to get to yarrow/rana is 4 parsecs....
I tweaked research a bit to speed up fusion bombs, stealing from planetology since we got radiated. Once we nail fusion bombs drath, imo put the research back into planet.
Yarrow and rana are pumping out pop3.0's as fast as they can and dumping towards Galos. Galos should be on it's feet during your turnset, moneky with the shields/industry.
Bugs have stinger missles and will trade them for inertial devices... I was hoping for a missle tech in the tree tho so I'll leave a trade like that up to the rest of you guys.
Anyway sorry for the huge delay. The combinaion of a stomach flu and missed work is never fun. This simply isn;t the stage of the game to whack end turn 10x and I wanted it to be played with at least half a mind.
Cheers!
-Liq
Executive summary -- we lost 
Summary:
When I opened the save file, there were 10 years until the vote. The Klackons and the Psilons were Allied. We had no means of burning down large amounts of worlds, as all of our spending had been put into NPG fighters. There was no way we could research terra +40 in that amount of time. I did manage to colonize, terraform, and fill up Ajax, but that wasn't nearly enough. I tried repeatedly to get the Psilons to trade us a terraforming tech, but it never came up in the options, and the bugs didn't have any. The alliance disappeared in 2442, only to re-appear in 2448
. In those two turns, neither race was willing to break alliance or go to war. Final vote:
Psilons: 20
Klackons: 5
Us: 9
Even with spending saved up for bombers (I crash researched Fusion bombs in two turns), I doubt we could have inflicted enough damage to matter. I think our biggest downfall was spreading our research too much over the last few decades; once it was clear that we couldn't block the vote, we should have beelined to +40, but hindsight is 20/20. I did save the game, but I really don't see any point in playing it out, as we are going to be stomped HARD. Anybody wants it though, let me know.
dathon
Summary:
When I opened the save file, there were 10 years until the vote. The Klackons and the Psilons were Allied. We had no means of burning down large amounts of worlds, as all of our spending had been put into NPG fighters. There was no way we could research terra +40 in that amount of time. I did manage to colonize, terraform, and fill up Ajax, but that wasn't nearly enough. I tried repeatedly to get the Psilons to trade us a terraforming tech, but it never came up in the options, and the bugs didn't have any. The alliance disappeared in 2442, only to re-appear in 2448
. In those two turns, neither race was willing to break alliance or go to war. Final vote:Psilons: 20
Klackons: 5
Us: 9
Even with spending saved up for bombers (I crash researched Fusion bombs in two turns), I doubt we could have inflicted enough damage to matter. I think our biggest downfall was spreading our research too much over the last few decades; once it was clear that we couldn't block the vote, we should have beelined to +40, but hindsight is 20/20. I did save the game, but I really don't see any point in playing it out, as we are going to be stomped HARD. Anybody wants it though, let me know.
dathon
I am not sure even +40 would have helped us in this game. I think our slow start was the real gamebreaker here. We were always just one (or three) step(s) behind the whole game.
While this was not an unexpected turn of events, and even though I have come back from further in the past (I once pulled off a win after having final war start just after I went from a 1PE to a 2PE with Darloks on a small map), I am happy to call this one a loss. We are not a comeback race, and our opponents have the firepower to glass our worlds outright. (In my comeback game bombs were missing from the AI tree until very late).
I would be happy to try this 'variant' again in the future.
StuporMan
While this was not an unexpected turn of events, and even though I have come back from further in the past (I once pulled off a win after having final war start just after I went from a 1PE to a 2PE with Darloks on a small map), I am happy to call this one a loss. We are not a comeback race, and our opponents have the firepower to glass our worlds outright. (In my comeback game bombs were missing from the AI tree until very late).
I would be happy to try this 'variant' again in the future.
StuporMan
It's not so much that we had a poor starting position (though that certainly didn't help) but that the bugs were not an effective check on Psilon expansion. In fact we wound up with an acceptable amount of territory: a bit on the small side but survivable. The fact that the bugs remained small and weak despite having lots of space to expand into -- yet not quite weak enough that we could take them over quickly -- meant that inciting war between they and the Psilons seemed to be a chancy prospect.
We did learn at least one new thing, however. We ought to have convinced the Psilons and bugs to go to war anyway. War tends to be a self-reinforcing state of affairs in MOO, but simply asking two races to break an alliance between themselves is not. They'll just re-ally in a few years unless you do something more to put a wedge between them. And at least if the Psilons and bugs were to go to war, and the bugs were to get wiped out, then we wouldn't have to worry about the vote any more...
We did learn at least one new thing, however. We ought to have convinced the Psilons and bugs to go to war anyway. War tends to be a self-reinforcing state of affairs in MOO, but simply asking two races to break an alliance between themselves is not. They'll just re-ally in a few years unless you do something more to put a wedge between them. And at least if the Psilons and bugs were to go to war, and the bugs were to get wiped out, then we wouldn't have to worry about the vote any more...
I wonder if that really would have helped. Even at the end of my turns, we were still in no position to claim any of the Klackon land, which the Psilons would have undoubtedly snapped up at break-neck pace. I'm guessing we would have gotten a planet or two near the border. The final outcome would have been an even bigger Psilon gorilla, compared to us, more than capable of squashing us with a sneeze. Given the tech gap, I doubt that the bugs would have lasted long enough as decoys either, but I could be wrong.
dathon
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
well I for one am amazed we had enough to out vote the psilons this rounds, that's a minor win =p
I find the voting to be a bit too random as leaders flip flop on the head of a dime in vote/abstain. Thing is though Say we passed the vote... then what? =)
What I noticed about this game were a few points already brought up..
1. range 4 as only range tech? WTH. Dovetail that with the very very spaced start, lots of empty suns and a start where we needed our only range tech to even colonize our first planet. One word... Shafted.
2. Klackons were complete duds. It seems they drew as bad a hand as we did in terms of range/habitable planets and suffered from the typical AI limits in expansion tactics.
3. Brains had no problems at all. They got all the techs they needed to hop around the wasteland I rolled up and even with a very screwy colonization policy werte able to fill in the gems sitting 5 effing parces ne of our core. We all know what happens when the brains are left alone, well letting them get 45% of the habitable galaxy on impossible is tenfold worse.
All told, an amazing core set of planets such that we were doing fine even with a 500 BC tech and LR colonys. So much such so that we were oddly competative. Problem though is we scratched out our 1/3rd galaxy but not the bugs.
The klackons apparently forgot to pack a lunch this game and let the brains actually flank them turning the game into a 1v1 cats brains game. I mean a prime example is galos; how in tarnations were we ever able to colonize that planet?
Rofl I loaded up my last save to check the tech tables with up to date and a random even gave the psilons 1400 BC....
The klacks had dead colony capability yet weren;t able to colonize even galos? Wow amazing. So much for having a race to play off the brains seeing as the game was over before we even had diplomatic contact.
What's really sad is that the brains had a list of computer and construction techs all white - Not a single one we had. The standouts were simply range 10, terriforming +30. Rofl. No wonder we lasted so long, Brains never got a real terriform tech.
Impressive game though still. Amazing how far we got with what we were given.
I wouldn;t mind osg11.1 race editing a Bears vs the bugs n' brains. B^3 Madness =) There's no way I'm legit rolling that one tho, I jinxed osg11. Have a few other variants in the pipe tho from rb forum.
Cheers!
-Liq!
I find the voting to be a bit too random as leaders flip flop on the head of a dime in vote/abstain. Thing is though Say we passed the vote... then what? =)
What I noticed about this game were a few points already brought up..
1. range 4 as only range tech? WTH. Dovetail that with the very very spaced start, lots of empty suns and a start where we needed our only range tech to even colonize our first planet. One word... Shafted.
2. Klackons were complete duds. It seems they drew as bad a hand as we did in terms of range/habitable planets and suffered from the typical AI limits in expansion tactics.
3. Brains had no problems at all. They got all the techs they needed to hop around the wasteland I rolled up and even with a very screwy colonization policy werte able to fill in the gems sitting 5 effing parces ne of our core. We all know what happens when the brains are left alone, well letting them get 45% of the habitable galaxy on impossible is tenfold worse.
All told, an amazing core set of planets such that we were doing fine even with a 500 BC tech and LR colonys. So much such so that we were oddly competative. Problem though is we scratched out our 1/3rd galaxy but not the bugs.
The klackons apparently forgot to pack a lunch this game and let the brains actually flank them turning the game into a 1v1 cats brains game. I mean a prime example is galos; how in tarnations were we ever able to colonize that planet?
Rofl I loaded up my last save to check the tech tables with up to date and a random even gave the psilons 1400 BC....
The klacks had dead colony capability yet weren;t able to colonize even galos? Wow amazing. So much for having a race to play off the brains seeing as the game was over before we even had diplomatic contact.
What's really sad is that the brains had a list of computer and construction techs all white - Not a single one we had. The standouts were simply range 10, terriforming +30. Rofl. No wonder we lasted so long, Brains never got a real terriform tech.
Impressive game though still. Amazing how far we got with what we were given.
I wouldn;t mind osg11.1 race editing a Bears vs the bugs n' brains. B^3 Madness =) There's no way I'm legit rolling that one tho, I jinxed osg11. Have a few other variants in the pipe tho from rb forum.
Cheers!
-Liq!
OlorinStormcrow
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Messages
- 204
I thought we hung in there pretty well. I also blame the Klackons for this one. If they had expanded faster, they would have been in second place pop-wise, which would have kept the Psilons from winning the vote. They would also have been in a position to hold their own in a war with the brains. If we played our diplo cards right, we could sit in our corner and get ourselves enough tech to take our some bug worlds, and more tech.
We might have had to eventually take out Orion in order to jump enough tech-wise to challenge the brains (or just wait until they went into the Advanced techs to catch up). With the Klackons sitting still and letting US out-expand them, even with our bad start, it was game over. Now if the roles had been reversed, and it was the bugs with almost half the galaxy, we might have been able to start a brain-bug war, and expected the brains to survive awhile, because they would probably still have had a tech advantage on the bugs.
I think this variant could be fun, but pitting the worst race against the top two on impossible level was too much. It would probably be better to play with a decent to good race, and take whatever two opponents happened to come up randomly.
I seem to have a knack for coming up with variants where we get our butts kicked.
Next time, we should go with someone else's idea.
We might have had to eventually take out Orion in order to jump enough tech-wise to challenge the brains (or just wait until they went into the Advanced techs to catch up). With the Klackons sitting still and letting US out-expand them, even with our bad start, it was game over. Now if the roles had been reversed, and it was the bugs with almost half the galaxy, we might have been able to start a brain-bug war, and expected the brains to survive awhile, because they would probably still have had a tech advantage on the bugs.
I think this variant could be fun, but pitting the worst race against the top two on impossible level was too much. It would probably be better to play with a decent to good race, and take whatever two opponents happened to come up randomly.
I seem to have a knack for coming up with variants where we get our butts kicked.
Next time, we should go with someone else's idea.
It may have been doable with a good race Vs those two, depending on how things shook out. I played this out from the start save with no special rules and it was a real bear.
You have a shot at getting enough planets to hold the vote, but have a long stretch of turtling. Then after going back into expansion via captures you get into the fleets with plasma torps and that is a potential planet buster. I had XX shields, but you could not stop all the fleets without a fleet of your own.
I had Star gates or it would have probably been a loser anyway. I could funnel new ships to planets in range or with fleet coming their way.
I finally just had to glass every Psilon planet and could capture the bugs. They never seemed to go at each at all as I recall.
A start with the Meklars or the Klacks instead of the Mrrs Vs Psilons and which ever one of the two you don't play would be a good one.
You have a shot at getting enough planets to hold the vote, but have a long stretch of turtling. Then after going back into expansion via captures you get into the fleets with plasma torps and that is a potential planet buster. I had XX shields, but you could not stop all the fleets without a fleet of your own.
I had Star gates or it would have probably been a loser anyway. I could funnel new ships to planets in range or with fleet coming their way.
I finally just had to glass every Psilon planet and could capture the bugs. They never seemed to go at each at all as I recall.
A start with the Meklars or the Klacks instead of the Mrrs Vs Psilons and which ever one of the two you don't play would be a good one.
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
yuck double post.
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
One of the salient points this game really drove home is just how overpowered the Psilons really are. Yes the sheer speed they tech is amazing but any AI race on impossible can duplicate that to an extent.
What really puts the Psilons over the top is just how many tech choices they have. Need a prop tech? 5 or 7? or maybe 4? The chance the psilons need to throw a tech turn away researching shields n when they just got shields n-1 is just so low, allowing the race to really put the beakers where it needs them most.
To be honest though, I have learned more about moo with olorin sponsored death SG's than plain wonder romps of missile fleets playing stalking horse to bombers.
But yeah a better race would be a better idea maybe lol.
Well hit up an osg 11.1 or 12 on rb
Cheers!
-Liq
What really puts the Psilons over the top is just how many tech choices they have. Need a prop tech? 5 or 7? or maybe 4? The chance the psilons need to throw a tech turn away researching shields n when they just got shields n-1 is just so low, allowing the race to really put the beakers where it needs them most.
To be honest though, I have learned more about moo with olorin sponsored death SG's than plain wonder romps of missile fleets playing stalking horse to bombers.
But yeah a better race would be a better idea maybe lol.
Well hit up an osg 11.1 or 12 on rb
Cheers!
-Liq
Well, guys, I decided to see if this game was winnable. I think we needed to make a few different priority calls earlier in the game. I went back and tried this same game again, starting from the 2320 save, with much better results so far. The main difference was that I prioritized technology and LR colships more heavily. The Psilons still beat me to Paladia, the Artifacts planet on our border, but I managed to get Kulthos before they did, and then threatened to attack when their colship fleet was about to arrive. (This got me reduced waste 80% off them. I also traded IIT8 to them for Range 5.)
I researched almost nothing other than construction and Planetology until I had IIT8 and Terraforming +20. Then I went straight to Inferno bases (skipping Dead.) I had hoped to perhaps trade for Barren or Tundra bases, but by the time I had Inferno done, I found I could fit an Inferno base on an LR colship, so I didn't need to. With LR Inferno colships available for range 8, and a toehold to the east at Kulthos, here's the result at 2400 AD...
And the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142685&stc=1&d=1163908422
Anyone interested in reviving this SG and picking up from here?
I researched almost nothing other than construction and Planetology until I had IIT8 and Terraforming +20. Then I went straight to Inferno bases (skipping Dead.) I had hoped to perhaps trade for Barren or Tundra bases, but by the time I had Inferno done, I found I could fit an Inferno base on an LR colship, so I didn't need to. With LR Inferno colships available for range 8, and a toehold to the east at Kulthos, here's the result at 2400 AD...
And the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142685&stc=1&d=1163908422
Anyone interested in reviving this SG and picking up from here?
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
sure zed. I'm not really awake though! but yes, in a way hindsight is 100% in that once you understand just how effed we are in terms of colonization plus the utter lameness of the bugs on this map the game becomes a bit easier.
not sure if you want to try this from your save or back at 2300? either way I'm gtg plus we have str00 to freak out for us
Cheers!
-Liq
not sure if you want to try this from your save or back at 2300? either way I'm gtg plus we have str00 to freak out for us
Cheers!
-Liq
Yup, spoiler info definitely applied here. Dead bases is a relatively expensive second-tier tech, and Inferno bases isn't that much more; Terra+20 -> Inferno is the obvious choice to get to Kulthos quickest, but only if you already know Inferno is in your tree and that getting Kulthos and Gion is fairly critical.
I would start from this save, I think. We could repeat the first century again SG-style but it took a modest amount of luck/precision timing to get this far (managing tech to get Terra+20 and IIT8 quickly, bluffing the Psilons to keep Kulthos when their colony fleet arrived and getting Reduced Waste out of it, etc.) Going back to 2320 (first posted save) risks muffing something up or getting a bad break along the way.
Besides, this game is not nearly won yet, as you can tell from the power graph. The psilons still have enough planets to thrash us in the tech race, and if they decide to get unhappy with us, our planets are entirely undefended. (Not a single weapon anywhere in our empire! Too busy trying to maximize expansion.)
I would start from this save, I think. We could repeat the first century again SG-style but it took a modest amount of luck/precision timing to get this far (managing tech to get Terra+20 and IIT8 quickly, bluffing the Psilons to keep Kulthos when their colony fleet arrived and getting Reduced Waste out of it, etc.) Going back to 2320 (first posted save) risks muffing something up or getting a bad break along the way.
Besides, this game is not nearly won yet, as you can tell from the power graph. The psilons still have enough planets to thrash us in the tech race, and if they decide to get unhappy with us, our planets are entirely undefended. (Not a single weapon anywhere in our empire! Too busy trying to maximize expansion.)
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
I'd vote start it as a new thread osg11a and go from there. work is still kicking me in the rear such that I am walking dead right now... thinking hard so hard make it stop!
Cheers!
-Liq'dd
Cheers!
-Liq'dd
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