OSG 15a - Puissant Psilons

Ug, it looks like I will need a skip this turnset. RL is kicking my butt.

Stup
 
2380

increased def spending at Obacca and set Mentar on missle cruiser for Tauri. We should get rid of the LR-Defs asap to save upkeep

2381

ec2 pop, rc3 next

2382

it8 pops, it7 next :-(
update mb design, as I think we can spare the slot

2383

Klystron barely defended against 2 silicoid col ships
(2 shields, 2 hv. las)

2384

Tauri founded, send pop and mb from Rha

2385

two Bulrathi huges Punisher design sighted in orbit around Kakata

2386

setting Mentar to placeholder for dead col as planetology bulb is full

2389

class3 shields pops, ps5 next
controlled dead pops!!!, spores next

2390

fusion bomb pops, ion cannon next - finally a gun!

We've got Tauri and have good chances for Klystron (colship is underway). I've begun some base building and used a good bit of the reserve for Rha and Tauri.

Good luck, emperor Zed!

cu

Ignatius
 
Inherited Turn: Reduce spending on bases in favour of technology; with planetary shields coming up in the not-too-distant future, we don't generally need more than a couple bases for most purposes. Not really convinced that our SpV 1.1 design was really needed -- means we'll just have two designs tied up for the same role, and the improvement is marginal -- but whatever. I guess we can scrap in smaller increments anyway. Redesign the dead colony ship to include Reserve Fuel Tanks; LR colships are always preferable to regular range ones! Start building a LR Dead colship at Mentar and redirect some of our LR DEF 1.0s to Ajax, the dead planet. They are as much there for armed exploration as for defense and we ought to hopefully get some new explorable planets soon.

Early turns: RC III comes in and we start factory construction. Sakkra colony at Mobas has a radiation accident. We construct a LR Dead colship and send it toward Ajax. Before it gets there, the Sakkra make a play for Ajax. Good thing I redirected two of our LR DEF 1.0 ships there; one arrives in time for the fight. Our 3 larges take on 1 Sakkra large (16 heavy lasers), 8 Sakka mediums (1 heavy blast cannon each) and the Sakkra colony ship (with a Toxic base.) We are victorious, losing one of our LR DEF 1.0 ships.

Late turns: Steady as she goes, building factories. Our colship is due at Ajax by 2400. I start working on another couple larges to send to defend Ajax. In 2399, though, we get a surprise -- we are in the election! Our colonization of Tauri and the radiation accident at Mobas may have been contributing factors to knocking the Sakkra out of second place pop-wise... possibly also the fact that the Sakkra are at war with just about everyone, if there are ground wars involved there. The Bulrathi, who are in first place pop-wise, are also at war with everyone, and this leads to votes being cast against them and in our favour. Enemy-of-my-enemy diplo kicks in and we receive votes from everyone other than the Bulrathi. This gives us enough votes to win the election, without our even having had to play any diplo tricks of our own!

Note also, that Dathon called it. Good eye for the possibility Dathon!
No way we can pass the Bulrathi in population, but judging by the bar graphs it looks like the Lizards might be lacking early terraforming, so we have a remote chance of coming up in the next election. Very remote, but it's there

From having been on the losing side of early alliance behaviour in a couple recent OSGs, it's nice to be on the other side of the fence, with no cheese involved. Things just happened to work out exactly right for a 2399 vote win, much to my surprise. Even though Dathon brought it up, I hadn't really thought that the pop split between the Sakkra and us would be quite that close, given that they had more planets able to grow pop than us. Nor had I expected that the Bulrathi had done quite that much to tick everyone else off. I have two saves:

SAVE3 - 2399 - vote win!
SAVE4 - 2400 - declined the vote win. Settled Ajax and sent pop from Rha. Made contact with the Silicoids and negotiated a minimal trade agreement.

My suggestion is to call this a vote win, and keep playing from the 2400 save as long as the other team is still playing.

Roster:
Zed <-- Just played
Dathon <-- UP NOW
StuporMan <-- On Deck
ignatius
 

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Thoughts on the variant:

Researching every tech in order and with equal speed across the board is a lot tougher than it sounds on the surface! No ability to prioritize early expansion technologies really hurts in many respects. With no tech restrictions, a good start can easily be turned into a runaway, and a bad start can often be turned into a decent or good start. With these tech restrictions, you're pretty much stuck with whatever you drew unless your neighbors are complete isolationists and never expand at all.

Researching everything in order really kills your overall tech rate -- even the Psilons, who tend to get more tech choices as well as cheaper research. You also don't tend to research what you need, when you need it. For some races, such as Klackons and Silicoids, this restriction hurts less. But playing this variant on Impossible as Mrrshan? Now that would have been a bit extreme.

I think this is one we could easily try again later, with a strong race on Impossible or a weak race on Hard.
 
SAVE3 - 2399 - vote win!

:woohoo: [party] :banana:

Maybe I should start playing the lottery ;)

Excellent! So basically we won by being the Switzerland of our galaxy. I agree with Zed, let's chalk this up as a vote win, and keep on playing. I'm curious to see how long we can survive. With the scatter packs, and both powerful races distracted by multiple targets, it may be longer than we think.

Researching every tech in order and with equal speed across the board is a lot tougher than it sounds on the surface!

Um, I didn't think it sounded easy when IamI3rian first suggested it :lol: That's why I didn't want to run the AUTO battles on top of it; this restriction was enough! I was actually wary of the Large-only restriction, but it didn't seem too bad, so I didn't raise the issue. I'm glad the tech-rung suggestion I put forward was voted down; that would have been too much, and frankly, wouldn't have changed much. All tech levels are pretty equal, though that may change.

I think this variant turned out pretty good too. My main problem with it is that it really does tie you to your start (as Zed noted), and one of my complaints about MOO is that the starts already dictate so much of the game's difficulty and direction. I actually think this would be a lot of fun to run on a large, or even huge map. Barring extremely bad luck, everybody usually gets some decent land to work with, and the extra space tends to keep the rabid AI off the player, except for bad diplomatic turns.

I'll play my turn set tomorrow. For now, let's abstain from council wins. I would say throwing votes to the other side for relations is fine. I'll play my turns tomorrow.

dathon
 
Wow, I should let people play my turns more often. Without my weedy decisions :smoke: you guys go and get a early vote win!

I have to agree with your assessments of the variant. Taking out tech decisions makes the game much more difficult, especially if you have to come from behind. I think this variant above all others tried crippled us closer to the level of the AIs. Without being able to prioritize the better techs, we are not able to capitalize on the AI's inability to do so. This coupled with AUTO battles would take away almost all of the human player's advantages (on top of being extraordinarily boring them), and I think this would bring us just about to even par with the AI's (our remaining advantages would just about cancel out the AI's bonuses). But as I say, this would be mere tedium and would likely result in a record just better than 1/((number of opponents) + 1).

Stup
 
good work Zed!

Redesign the dead colony ship to include Reserve Fuel Tanks; LR colships are always preferable to regular range ones!

I made a mistake in the report, the deadcol was of course headed for Ajax, not radiated Klystron and due to arrive in 2397. Building a LR colship would have cost another turn (took max ind to complete) and the delay didn't seem to be worth it for the off chance of Ajax getting colonized by the AI during the next 7 turns AND us being able to use it somewhere else soon. Also, we still had a free slot so could have waited until arrival before scrapping the design.

Taking out tech decisions makes the game much more difficult

I'd say it actually makes it easier to play, however much more unlikely to win. ;)

Without being able to prioritize the better techs, we are not able to capitalize on the AI's inability to do so. This coupled with AUTO battles would take away almost all of the human player's advantages (on top of being extraordinarily boring them)

I tend to agree. The variant does indeed take much of the strategy out of the game. Not necessarily bad for my first OSG ;), but generally I'd rather play a weaker race but either take the "all techs equal" or "all techs in order" out, to leave at least some tech decisions to the player.

The "large hulls only" restriction didn't seem to have made too much of a difference so far, but this might still change once we are in the offensive. The effect should depend a lot on the available missle tech, as missle boats generally seem to be the best option for large low-attrition designs.

ignatius
 
good work Zed!
Heh, my play this turn didn't have too much to do with it. ;) It was the sum of our play to date, plus some war die-roll and event luck, which made a win possible here.

Building a LR colship would have cost another turn (took max ind to complete)
Didn't seem that way. I double-checked the design and it takes 3 turns to build a Dead colship or a LR Dead colship. Reserve tanks are so inexpensive that their cost will almost never mean an extra turn construction -- it's the space they take up that's the kicker.

The "large hulls only" restriction didn't seem to have made too much of a difference so far, but this might still change once we are in the offensive. The effect should depend a lot on the available missle tech, as missle boats generally seem to be the best option for large low-attrition designs.
It's pretty much a fluff restriction, except that it doesn't allow for the small bomber SoD. You'll wind up spending more on shipping and take more casualties but it will almost never be a make-or-break deal; if you can afford to go to war with smalls, you can generally afford to go to war with larges.
 
Not much happened on my watch this time.

Every tech but FF popped:

IIT7 --> ARS
Spores --> Inferno
BCIII --> ECMIII
Rng7 --> Pulsar
Ion Cannons --> Mass Driver

The good news is that we have both Stingers and AMB's available in our weapon ladder. Those missiles should cement our survival for some time to come, and the AMB's might let us poach a couple Sakkra worlds. The bad news is that we have a HUGE hole in engine tech. We missed Fusion's on the next rung (landing every other option, blah), so our ships are going to be sloths for some time to come.

I didn't mention this before, but my personal opinion is that trading for the range tech went against the spirit of the variant. I completely understand why Zed did it; it's not technically against the rules, and we would have probably lost without it, which is why I kept silent. However, I see trading for tech kind of akin to stealing for this variant. We're supposed to be so smug in our own abilities that we research everything ourselves if possible. What are the thoughts of the rest of the team? I bring it up now, because we need to decide if we're going to trade for engines. My vote is, of course, no. Nobody will even offer it at the moment anyway, but we need to decide.

I terraformed Tauri, maxed our core worlds, and built some bases at Rha. We have 3 more missile boats heading/arrived at Ajax, and 5 for Tauri. Might be a little much for Tauri, but I'd rather that than lose the planet to a Lizard surprise attack. The green star SE of Toranor is empty. The Rocks came calling on my last turn to up our trade to 425, and as we should be cultivating them as a long-term friend, I agreed.

Roster:
Zed
Dathon <-- Just played
StuporMan <-- UP NOW
ignatius <-- On Deck

dathon
 

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I double-checked the design and it takes 3 turns to build a Dead colship

Sure, but I had begun building a placeholder ship earlier in order to be able to finish the ship immediately after deadcol pops and put in about half the production of Mentar as it wasn't even in the percentages, and it seemed better to keep the tech flow as smooth as possible to optimize interest. When it finally poped, I could build the deadcol in one turn but it required even the last tick on the industry slider (I also somewhat understimated the price difference between the standard and the deadcol). I didn't check, but I couldn't imagine that there was any budget left for extra equipment. Still, I probably would have gone with the minimum design anyway as I needed only a single ship and already knew where to send it, so it would (hopefully) block the penultimate slot for only 7 turns.

cu

ignatius
 
What are the thoughts of the rest of the team? I bring it up now, because we need to decide if we're going to trade for engines.

I say, go for it! The bad start and the explicit variant rules really hampered us enough already; plus, we already did it once (and for good reason), so even from an aesthetic POV, since the "damage" is already done, it would feel like a pointless gesture to me.

cu

ignatius
 
I don't think it's really against the spirit of the variant; we are demonstrating our superiority in that we have something the other guys don't have, and the AI only trades lesser value techs for greater. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but if people want to take it off the playing field, that's ok too.
 
Turn 1, class V planetaries fall. I choose class IV as per variant. And set everyone to making shields. Sakkra dislike this and declare war. I try to hide a spy in the Sakkra so we can see what tech they have. I set Ajax back to factories to help its development, and I backed off a little on shield construction at Tauri as well.

Planetology falls mid turnset, and we start researching enhanced eco. I also get a good look at Sakkra tech, the only real baddie there is fusion bombs. We will have to watch incoming stacks and take down any bombers first. Silly's try to land a colony on Klystron (untaken Radiated), our one large is enough to take down their col ship.

Sakkra look to be sending a fleet to Ajax, though they may just be sending it to Gienah. I probably will not get a shield up in time, but I put all effort there anyway and pump reserves. If their one Huge design lacks bombs we can still repel them if we can get one up before they invade.

Automated repair comes in next turn and 60% is queued. It now looks more like the Sakkra are not attacking us, but I keep pumping the shield just in case. The next turn the Sakkra fleet flies past Ajax. I breathe a sigh of relief.

Once we get our shields up everywhere, we should consider making a fusion bomber design and taking a Sakkra world or two since we are at war anyway. Their fleet is impressively strong right now, though.

Oh, and someone needs to set our Artifacts world back to research. I wanted to put a few missile bases up there, but forgot to switch back before I made the save.

Stup
 

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Looks like things begin to heat up ...

I got the save and will see if I can play my turn tonight.

As for the tech trade issue: votes so far, as I see it, are dathon against, and Zed and myself pro with Stupor's take not in yet. Since a majority against is already impossible, I might try if we can get a real engine before designing any new ships.

cu

Ignatius
 
2420

  • Send scouts to Xengara and Vega
  • Turn on spying on all races to see where we stand and what trade options we have.
  • Put Mentar on reserve to help stand up Tauri and Ajax, our most exposed planets.

2422

ecm3 pops, improved scanner next

2423

massive Sakkra SoD sighted moving to Xengara (ETA 1 turn)

2424

  • mass driver finally pops, neutron blasters next (amb, stingers and hard beam in the queue)
  • decide to wait for intelligence before trying to trade for an engine as FF and prop. are in the percentages and coids still at neutral (it's probably too soon for sublights anyway and I don't want to settle for less as we'll need the transport speed)
  • send LR-Def to Xengara to take a photo of SoD if it's still there
  • again sakkra fleet near Ajax but hopefully headed for Gienah (can't wait for those improved scanners ...)
2425

vote:

8 sakkra for sakkra
2 humans for us
3 alkaris for us
6 bulrathis for us
5 coids for us
6 we for sakkra

Our appeasment politics brought us all up to tense

  • tauri completed shield
  • Mentar back to tech
2427

LR-Def takes a photo of Sakka SoD

2427_sakkra_fleet.png


those heavy blasters can make problems but no missles and bombs

  • shields4 pops, repulsor next, shields5 in queue
  • enh. eco pops, terra30 next, antidote, contr. radiated(!), terra40 in queue
  • sakkra transport sighted over xengara - looks like there's some gropo action going on somewhere.
2428

  • energy pulsar pops, rage8 next, wd, range9 and impulse drives (thank god) in the queue
  • finally report on bears comes in - no luck, they are still on retros

2429

  • Silicoid col fleet attacked at Klystron, colship destroyed but lost missle boat. Shark class large (IS, duralloy, gatlings+fusion bombs) still in orbit!!!
  • silicoid report also in, again no luck (retros) - Seems like we will have to do it the hard way after all ...
  • stopped all spying

2430

The Sakkras ask for peace. Well, I really would have liked to delegate this decision to Zed, also to give you guys a chance to comment. Since we will have to wait at least two decades before we will get anything but retros, I decided to accept the offer. We have consolidated our position and are competitive tech wise, despite our variant, as long as the AIs stay at war and we can keep military spending low. And we still have the two radiated including an UR with contr. radiated in our tree (I dispatched additional reinforcments to Klystron this turn).

Good luck, Zed!

Ignatius
 
Good turnset ignatius! :goodjob:

Thanks for getting the intel on the Sakkra fleet. The Banshee's and Juggernauts could be trouble in large numbers, but thankfully they're low shield, so scatter packs should be pretty effective.

You made the right call on taking peace. If we can hold on for a bit longer, we'll have great missiles and bombs, plus an engine in the queue (whew!) and can go on the offensive then. I think trying to attack now would be a little premature. The rocks are going to be more and more persistent towards Klystron, so we may need a re-design to keep their grubby, um, "hands" off it.

dathon
 
Turn summary: Pretty quiet overall. Since we negotiated peace with the Sakkra, a couple of their attacks have turned back upon arrival at Ajax. We have a bunch of ships heading to Klystron pell-mell in order to try and recover it from the Silicoid large that's hanging out there. I delay the one leaving from Obaca by a turn to try and get at least some coordination -- I'm not at all sure our larges are a match for the other races' at this point, since ours are all older designs. I send all our oldest ships to Klystron and spread the others out to where I think they might be needed. Since they only go at warp 1, we can't really afford to have all our eggs in one or two baskets.

As the turn progressed, the Silicoid large at Klystron left before we got there. The Bulrathi took this chance to send a couple of their own larges to Klystron. I fought them off with a pair of our MB1.1s and a DEF 1.0, losing the DEF. I also repelled a Silicoid colony ship that attempted to land at Klystron.

Xengara (Steppe Artifacts) is pretty much a spud at the moment. We might be able to get a fleet in there some point while it's changing hands to colonize it for ourselves, but not with warp 1 engines. We'll have to wait for Impulse drives to come in, which could be a while as we have at a couple other things we must research first.

On my turn, we researched Improved Scanner (-> BC IV), Reduced Waste 60 (-> Zortium), Repulsor (-> Class V), Terraform+30 (->Antidote), Neutron Blaster (-> AMB). Pretty much this is tech parity with everyone else. We aren't going to pull into a lead until we are able to start going on the offensive.

Roster:
Zed <-- Just played
Dathon <-- UP NOW
StuporMan <-- On Deck
ignatius
 

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