Ottoman UU, too powerful?

[LorenzotheMad]

I imagine that this has been discussed before but I believe that the Ottoman's UU Sipahi are way too powerful. With an attack of 8, they dominate from the middle of medieval times with pikes and muskets all the way to late industrial with riflemen and infantry. I am currently playing a Monarch, Pangaea game as Ottomans and nobody can stand in my way. My Sipahi have destroyed the Incans, Mayans, Americans, Vikings, and now the Greeks. Even with infantry fortified in cities, my Sipahi still manage to win. Of course, I have three all Sipahi armies with a movement of four that totally dominate. No real question in this thread, just wanted to praise the virtues of the Sipahi. I will be able to use them until mobile infantry show up and since the rest of the world is just barely getting infantry, it should be all over soon. Btw, it is about 1560 AD.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, there is a reason why Siphai are 25% more expensive then Cavalry.

 

[Dell19]

They do come later in the game so the negative is if you get involved in early wars... Ultimately its all down to how you use a UU. If the other civs had plenty of cavalry to counter attack with then it might have been closer.

 

[Vizurok]

Try attacking a tank with Sipahi... --> imagine that's Sipahi
That's why I love them, and love the Ottomans, good UU, good traits...

 

[player1 fanatic]

Nice thing with this UU is that it's useful early when fighting pikes or muskets and also when fighting "trench war" with arty and infantry. Very long lifespan.

 

[collin_stp]

very useful, but not too powerful. Immortals get the same combat advantage over swordsmen (proportionally), but (I don't think) they cost any more, like the siphai does. For me it is hit and miss if I get a tremendous advantage out of them, it depends on if I am ahead (in which they are great), or not (they are no longer more powerful than rifles in a city).

 

[~Corsair#01~]

I prefer the Russian Cossacks, cos they have the extra movement point.
The Cossacks can use their speed to attack Cavalry and retreat so they're always on the offensive, especially if you fight in your own land, where you can use the roads.

 

[Sparta]

I'm with collin on this one. Proportionally, an Immortal's extra attack (almost instantly in AA if you want) is seemingly almost more overweighting than a +2 bonus late in the middle ages (if you think about it, I personally would usually prefer upping my swords to 4 attack against spears than worrying about paying extra for a 6->8 upgrade against 6's and 10's (if you're fighting musketmen or worse pikemen, your lead likely makes the point somewhat moot regardless)). I'd theorize that part of the domination you're seeing is just from a lead and well-used cavalry; you'd probably be rolling over the AI with (assisted) standard cavalry armies as well. Just my two cents.

That said though, sipahi certainly are very fun to dominate with...

 

[Pfeffersack]

I prefer the Russian Cossacks, cos they have the extra movement point.
The Cossacks can use their speed to attack Cavalry and retreat so they're always on the offensive, especially if you fight in your own land, where you can use the roads.

Extra movemnt point? They have 3 like the Sipahi and normal cavalry.The only special thing about Cossacks is they can blitz.

 

[dmanakho]

Extra movemnt point? They have 3 like the Sipahi and normal cavalry.The only special thing about Cossacks is they can blitz.

Thats true cossacks have the same movement points as other cavalry units.
But the blitz ability is superb for MGL fishing ages before tanks are available.
I play random games and i never have so many leaders as when i play russians.
I have yet to play for ottomans. Can't comment much on Sipahi units but it looks like a pretty strong unit against AI, but it won't be as strong against human player.

 

[Longasc]

The Sipahi are powerful, but not overpowered, 6/8, that is app. the same as 3/4. -> Immortals are similar to them.

However, Cavalry and Knights, fast and powerful, are probably the most useful military toys for every Civ player. Sipahi have an edge over defending Musketman and can even take on Riflemen, but Walls, large Cities... this all helps against them, they make your live easier, but against AI Sipahi: Simply attack them - they are not great defenders.

I could also bet if you win with Sipahi, you could also win with Cavalry - they are stronger, but they also cost more. I think they are quite okay as they are. Still, they are among the best UU's.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Actually, I find Siphai very useful in Infantry/Artillery era.
They are the unit with best attack at that time.

Perfect for finishing off units that very obliterated to 1hp by Artillery.

 

[dsranger1]

I haven't played as the Ottomans in some time, as I took a break from C3 for a while when I got UT2003. I do recall one game played as the Ottomans when I was doing okay against the AI civs up to the point when I could build Sipahi, but once I could, it was like watching modern armor against longbowmen - not even close! I rolled over one opponent whose empire stretched across over 1/2 the length of the map, then started rolling up against his larger AI neighbor to similar effect, until I got tired of having to SLOWLY march my riflemen into the conquered cities for defense while I continued my offensive.

 

[Khift]

Sipahi are great units, but personally, I like Cossacks better. They fit my play style better - using Artillery to bombard a unit down to one health, then using one Cossack to take out three enemy units, thanks to blitz.

Siphahi just look better, and have a more interesting culture behind them.

 

[LorenzotheMad]

The thing with my Sipahi conquering so easily was that I never used my cannon/artillery for over half the middle ages and well into the industrial times. My Sipahi did well all by themselves and indeed, I was conquering too fast for my slow infantry units to catch up. I usually managed to land my Sipahi on a hill or something to help offset their meager defense. I just felt so bad for my artillery corps, totally unused until infantry started to show up.

 

[Dell19]

With Cavalry similar things can occur. In general I don't use that many cannons and usually build more artillary although if you time it right you can usually keep a stack of cannons just behind your advanced troops and then whilst your cavalry are healing they move onto the next target so that they can be used to bombard the next target although it depends whether the computer has close together cities or whether there are large open spaces between them.

 

[truckingpete]

The only thing I found weak against the Ottoman UU is the Rifleman. I just can get pass them becuase of the defense is has....I win, but its hard too...

But it is the best UU in the game out of the other civs!!!

 

[~Corsair#01~]

OK, I think I got my wires crossed about Cossacks, but as for using artillery with Cavalry, I've never been able to, I only use artllery if I'm using them in tandem with 1 movement point troops, or at the very beginning of a war where I have plenty of time to get my troops in place.

 

[Dell19]

Perhaps cavalry is a bit harder to use with artilery but certainly with tanks its possible to move a stack forward whilst the quick units heal so that everyone reaches the next target at roughly the same time. I guess an idea would be to use transports to drop off an artillery stack further into enemy territory so that they are alread there when the cavalry arrives.

 

[ozza000]

It's a good uu but not the best. Gallic Swordsman, Panzers and Riders are examples of better. The Celts are just unbelievably powerful, no one beats the Celts.