Over the Reich - Creation Thread

After having significant troubles with emailing the scenario, I've decided to just post it here. Everyone, please be advised that not all art is completed yet, and this scenario is basically just in the playtest stage to see how it balances. Enjoy :)
 

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Okay i post her ;)


Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-9
Number built: 674
Baujahr: 1944-45

Spannweite: 10,51 m
Länge: 10,19 m
Höhe: 3,95 m
Flügelfläche: 18,3 m²
Motor: Junkers Jumo 213 A-1 mit 1776 PS (Notleistung kurzfristig 2250 PS)
Startmasse: 4270 kg
Flächenbelastung: 234 kg/m²
Höchstgeschwindigkeit: 686 km/h in 6600 m Höhe (704 Km/h)
Gipfelhöhe: 11.100 m
Steigfähigkeit: ca. 1280 m/min
Reichweite ohne Zusatztanks bei Sparleistung: 810 km (mit ca. 1.100 km)
Bewaffnung: 2x 13-mm-MG 131, 2x 20-mm-MG 151/20E, optional +1 x 30mm MK108

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Focke-Wulf Ta 152H-1
Number built: 150
Baujahr: 1945

Spannweite: 14,82 m
Länge: 10,82 m
Höhe: 3,36 m
Flügelfläche: 23,50 m²
Leergewicht: 3920 kg
Startgewicht: maximal 5215 kg
Antrieb: ein flüssigkeitsgekühlter V-12-Motor Jumo 213 E-1 mit 1750 PS (2050 PS mit MW-50)
Höchstgeschwindigkeit: 730 km/h in 9500 m Höhe (ohne MW-50)
Marschgeschwindigkeit: 500 km/h
Steiggeschwindigkeit: 1050 m/min
Dienstgipfelhöhe: 14.800 m
Reichweite: 1200 km
Bewaffnung: 1x 30mm-MK 108, 2x 20mm-MG 151/20

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Heinkel He 162A-1/2
Number built: 170
Baujahr: 1945

Spannweite: 7,20 m
Länge: 9,05 m
Höhe: 2,60 m
Fläche: 11,16 m²
Leergewicht: 1,663 t
Abfluggewicht: 2,805 t
Dienstgipfelhöhe: 11.000 m
Triebwerk: 1x Strahlturbine - BMW 003 E-1, max. Schubleistung 920 kp
Kraftstoffkapazität: 1.055 Liter
Höchtgeschwindigkeit: in 6000m Höhe 905 km/h
Reichweite: max. 945 km
Bewaffnung: 2x 20mm-MG 151/20 (A1); 2 x 30mm MK108 (A2)
Avionik: FuG 24 R/T Freund-Feind-Kennung FuG 2a
 
And my counter from the other thread... Additional comments in italics.

-The 30mm package was standard on the TA-152, and certainly not on the D9 (I would say on average the 152 had much more firepower). This was a very rare option for a D9 to have.

- The TA-152 had a greater range, and was (considerably) faster at high altitude. Using your numbers, the service ceiling is significantly higher.

- the difference between 150 and 170 for numbers built is not substantial (especially when most other models had 1000's built). While you could make a case for either, I have selected the TA-152 because the jet and rocket aircraft have significant in-game advantages, so I'd rather have a "top tier" propeller fighter beside them than a different jet aircraft.

In this scenario, the three late war Luftwaffe aircraft each have their own niche role:

The Me163 can attack multiple times over one turn, but must return to base that same turn, and has short range.

The Me262 is invisible until it attacks (to demonstrate the difficulty of intercepting it) AND has very high A/D stats to make attacking it a risky option. This is a very expensive unit.

The Ta152 is a slight upgrade over the D9, but retains the D9's (relatively) modest cost. You could put out 2 of these for every 262, yet you won't get nearly as powerful of a unit.

I think that these three fill their role very well. How would the He 162 differ dramatically or change this dynamic?
 
I’ve spent the past few days tinkering a bit with Over the Reich. My primary goal has been to balance the scenario better, and especially to ensure that each and every unit has a vital function and true purpose for existing.

Spoiler :


The Allies

- The P-47C is now available from the beginning of the scenario, but none have been built (you will still rely on Spitfire squadrons at first).

- Bomber defenses upgraded – they are now capable of dishing out significant defensive fire and will need to be softened up.

- Allied fighters progress on a linear track for attack, defense, and range. The Spitfire’s stats are 11a, 9d, 2hp, 3fp, 20x3 movement, whereas the P-51D stats are 16a, 14d, 2hp, 3fp, 50x7 movement. The P-47M is now the most powerful fighter, but lacks the Mustangs’ range.

- The B-26 is no longer a one-range air unit. Instead, its movement points are 75x2, leaving it open for counter attack. Its role, however, is vital: it is now, by far, the most powerful Allied unit (though forbidden from going to high altitude), making it the only one capable of successfully attacking German radar facilities, and Luftwaffe secondary "unit" airfields (the “city” airfields and flak batteries will be much more difficult because of the SAM improvement).

- There are now more flak batteries over England, and radar facilities, since Luftwaffe raids will be possible.

- The British will now receive raw materials via events, just as the Germans do (best to destroy these and the locomotives, lest the RAF bombers become more active!

- One Allied airfield will now have an airport improvement, which will represent experienced pilot transfers from other theatres. As of now, I’m thinking this will be Duxford.

The Luftwaffe

- Although this scenario has always featured 109s as escorts and 190s as interceptors, I’ve decided to make this more pronounced. The 109s will now be much better at defense (13 for the G model, and 15 for the K) and will play the role of the Fw190’s shield.

- The 190 lineup now takes the role of bomber interceptor, as in real life. They are more likely to survive an attack by Allied fighters than 110s or 410s.

- The 110 and 410’s role of heavy interceptor has also become more pronounced, as they are the only unit that can almost certainly be counted on to destroy a fresh bomber in one pass. However, this comes at the expense of atrocious defense.

- The 163 and 262 remain top class interceptors, with the former having 1-range movement, and the latter being invisible until attack, and very powerful on both attack and defense.

- Radar will also be featured from this point forward, and although these are vulnerable to attack, at least they will have a proper flak defense now. They will be scattered along the coast for the most part, with secondary installations at key points along the interior.

- The “Mobile Flak” unit has been removed, and will be replaced by a German equivalent to the Allied B-26, for raids against England. I’m still up in the air as to which particular aircraft this will be.

- JV44 will have the airport improvement representing experienced pilots transferring from other theatres.

Anyway, I think these are significant improvements, but we’ll see…

 
B-17s and B-24s did not fly in the same formations because of their different cruising speeds (I think the Liberator was a bit faster). So.... ;)

I've since made a change where the B-17s and B-24s have different ranges. The B-24s will have to be used to hit the truly deep targets, while the B-17s range tops out at Regensburg.

Anyway, the B-24s have better attack and range, but the B-17s have better defensive attributes. At least there's a reason for building both now!
 
I was thinking of using it to get the US Bombers part way to their targets without telegraphing their intentions, it is a long flight to Berlin and Munich! Once they had got over mainland Europe they would revert back to their normal way of moving and could be intercepted. Just an idea. I don't think planes can paradrop anyway so don't worry.
 
There are a few non-city airfields located on railway lines which are a bit inconvenient for the German Army. Would it be possible to shift them a square away or add sidings for the Locos to pass?

Did you think of using the impassable terrain trick keep trains on the railroads? This would make the effects of bombing RR much more disruptive.

From a German perspective it would be much better for me if the Army was in control of the TENO Brigades. The Luftwaffe gets very few Supply trains!
 
I just realised the Mobile Flak unit does not help protect the high altitude targets (obvious when you think it through I suppose, in fact so obvious I feel like a fool) and I'm a bit annoyed with myself!!!

My air units cannot directly protect them either unless I form a fighter ring around them. I should have some way of protecting these units!

I have been building mobile flak thinking they would provide some defence for targets but I now realise I have been wasting my money. The only possible use for the flak units is protecting my locomotives, but as their movement is inferior that is of little use.

How about swapping the mobile flak for a flak wagon with the same movement rate on rails as locomotives?

Also, would it be possible to include a unit like a barrage balloon to protect hight altitude targets? It could be paradroped in place and then become static. Again, just an idea.
 
There are a few non-city airfields located on railway lines which are a bit inconvenient for the German Army. Would it be possible to shift them a square away or add sidings for the Locos to pass?

That should be an easy enough fix for the release version! How useful are you finding the airfields, anyway, because that is a unit that could be recycled as something else... I'm finding them very useful as the USAAF but of course I could always add one or two "RAF" city-airfields near Plymouth and Portsmouth.

To be honest, I would rather use them as some sort of generic "target" unit to be placed in France, (Perhaps "D-Day Target?") that would re-spawn randomly and give a cash infusion to the Allies. There's really no reason to ever fly a mission over France after the Sub Pens and Paris (BB) are destroyed at present, and this needs to change.

Did you think of using the impassable terrain trick keep trains on the railroads? This would make the effects of bombing RR much more disruptive.

What would be especially great about this is that then only units actually ON the railroads would be destroyed, too.

The only way I can make it happen is to remove the "supply dump" terrain, and just ensure that each USAAF airfield has 2-3 "H.Q" terrains nearby (renamed to supply dump, most likely).

From a German perspective it would be much better for me if the Army was in control of the TENO Brigades. The Luftwaffe gets very few Supply trains!

I can't give Germany the TeNo's for technical reasons (RR), but I am not opposed to giving the Luftwaffe more supply trains per production run, if you feel they are unfairly behind the eight ball.

I just realised the Mobile Flak unit does not help protect the high altitude targets (obvious when you think it through I suppose, in fact so obvious I feel like a fool) and I'm a bit annoyed with myself!!!

I have already removed mobile flak because they are essentially useless. I replaced them with a Fw190F for jabo raids against England, because England will now get supply trains of its own on occasion, and the Luftwaffe had to have some way to stop them (it also gives some meaning to garrisoning your western airfields after the initial targets are destroyed).

My air units cannot directly protect them either unless I form a fighter ring around them. I should have some way of protecting these units!

There's not really a very good option. In the pre-release, the bombers could move 50 spaces per turn, which essentially made all targets completely defenseless. With their current movement of 25 per turn, at least you can intercept them before they strike most targets (Brest is an exception).

In the new version, you will have more flak batteries, though they will also have less total shots (I've reduced the amount of units fundamentalism can support, and the flak bursts are no longer free).

Also, would it be possible to include a unit like a barrage balloon to protect hight altitude targets? It could be paradroped in place and then become static. Again, just an idea.

I prefer to force the German player to intercept the raids (or blast them out of the sky with flak), but I think a major issue we have encountered is that I haven't felt the need to advance without escort for very many raids, and thus you have been compelled into an early war of attrition that is taking its toll too soon. This needs to change in the new version. I may have to delay the entry of P-38's and P-47D's a tech or two to make waiting for escorts a less viable strategy. The Allied player will now start with P-47C's, but they are short-ranged (30 spaces per 3 turns - enough to fight over Belgium and not much else).

Ideally, you should be able to wait for the escorts to retire before attacking the bombers for all but the closest of targets. That's not happening right now, which is a major problem.
 
Sounds like you are on the case with most of my minor gripes. Despite these the game is playing well!

I think the airfields are more of a nuissance to me (IE a few of my aircraft have accidentally landed on them during low level flights). As long as there are a reasonable spread of city-airfields that will suffice. I would estimate that 3/4 of my airfields are not being utilized! I also agree that once the sub pens are gone France gets abandoned. It would be good to have something to still fight for there. More flak units sound good. I guess with the radar units changing purpose you will be having a bit of a re-plan. I would suggest increasing the range of the heavy flak a little so there aren't so many blind spots.
 
John's comments about the relative quality of pilots and air superiority between the USAAF and Luftwaffe hit the nail squarely on the head on the question of kill-loss ratios, rather than the P-51 being a massively better fighter than anything Germany had. If you check out the performance of a P-51D, Spitfire XIV and FW-190D, the 190D and Spitfire have better acceleration, max ceiling, weight of lead thrown at the enemy, turn-rate and climb-rate than the Mustang. All three were appreciably better than most other fighters of the time (excluding of course the new jets!). The Mustang had fantastic range, well-trained pilots with good tactics, and a massive advantage of numbers over the late-war Luftwaffe.

Thank you and JP for explain. Agree with you.:)
However, I think P-51 also has its own trick besides the training and number advantage: it achieved long range not only because large fuel tank, but also because its low drag and high cruise speed(though no advantage for top speed), which means it can maintain energy well in a combat, it's good for both attack others and ivade attacks. And also it has perhaps the best gun sight targeting system. So P-51's Real dogfight capability can be better than its "paper data" suggests.
Anyway, as you said training and tactics and number should served a much more important factor than flight performance.
 
I was thinking of using it to get the US Bombers part way to their targets without telegraphing their intentions, it is a long flight to Berlin and Munich! Once they had got over mainland Europe they would revert back to their normal way of moving and could be intercepted. Just an idea. I don't think planes can paradrop anyway so don't worry.

Planes can paradrop, they just can not para onto ocean;)
And it if para-able, they can jump in and capture citys, just as Me110 served as airbrone troop to capture airfields in the early war:p
 
clightning - rereading your post (and mine before it), I realize I'm an idiot who didn't answer your question properly :)

I was dissatisfied with the way the scenario looked and played with the RAF bombing campaign included. I did not have enough space to give them an honest representation that they deserved. I think they would be better off with a separate scenario (although, to be honest, I think that the best scenario the RAF could have in Civ2 would probably be a MP Battle of Britain).

Anyway, I decided to start all over just including the USAAF and Luftwaffe (and representing the RAF abstractly via techs).

As of now, the rules file is complete, and the map (including unit placement) is all set with the exception of the static targets, which are easy to mess up and need to be done s.l.o.w.l.y.

Once they are placed, I'll have to write the events, but aside from those two things, the scenario should be ready for at least an alpha test shortly (assuming I can avoid the endless "honey do list" ;) ).

Thank you for explain.:)
Yes the Night Bombing would be very hard to make into one SCN, and would not be RAF's greatest time. Is there any nice Battle of Britain SCN? I would like to see one, after you finish this:goodjob:
 
Thank you and JP for explain. Agree with you.:)
However, I think P-51 also has its own trick besides the training and number advantage: it achieved long range not only because large fuel tank, but also because its low drag and high cruise speed(though no advantage for top speed), which means it can maintain energy well in a combat, it's good for both attack others and ivade attacks. And also it has perhaps the best gun sight targeting system. So P-51's Real dogfight capability can be better than its "paper data" suggests.
Anyway, as you said training and tactics and number should served a much more important factor than flight performance.

You know, those of you who are really into warbirds might want to check out Aces High II (www.hitechcreations.com). I've been playing these MMO flight simulators since probably about '97-'98 and they are a blast. AHII might not have the prettiest graphics (that would belong to the box games like Il-2), but it does have the best community, set up, and flight model. The owner/designer has taken extreme pains to get the physics as close to real life as possible, even designing his own RV-8 in the game to make sure it feels as it should.

You get two weeks free trial, though I would advise playing offline for a few days before you use it, so that you can get your equipment properly set up.

I would be happy to spend time with anyone helping them get the hang of it :)
 
That's a great game as well as the website info.
But I may be too busy to really get access into it:(
However Over the Reich would be more suitable for an office enviroment as I'm in;)
 
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