Over the Reich - Creation Thread

Well after dropping off the face of the planet for over a year, I'm taking another look at this. I put too much work into it to just throw it away, but I started a new career last year and threw myself into it and had no time for Civ2.

Right now I'm messing around with it on my own trying to figure out what was left to do/left undone. I hope to tinker with it more often in the future.

I'll let you all know...
 
I hope you are all doing well!


Count me in as another designer who is intrigued by ToTPP… I would very much like to get that running on my computer (but with Windows 10 who knows if it is possible—I did post in the bugs thread) to see if I can finish this scenario with it.


I’m quite annoyed with myself that I never finished this scenario because I personally think it was the most innovative one that I ever designed, and I do enjoy the concept. With that said, it never was what I envisioned it when I first thought about it probably close to 15 years ago or more at this point… I originally wanted to have both the 8th Air Force and Bomber Campaigns modeled using 4 different maps: two for night and two for daylight. There just weren’t enough unit slots to make that work.

With ToTPP that wouldn’t be an issue.

I’d love to re-imagine this scenario with the following civs:

Jagdflieger
Nachtjagdflieger
USAAF
RAF
Allies
Axis
Resistance

I’d have four maps:

Lo-Alt Day
High-Alt Day
Lo-Alt Night
High-Alt Night

I’ve just started reading up on lua but I’d be interested to know if a few things are possible with the advanced scripting [brackets for advanced script ideas]:

1. A B-17 is shot down, [and there is a certain percent chance that] the unit is replaced on the lower-alt map by a parachute unit, which would be a ground unit representing the crew bailing out. If the Germans kill the unit, it simply dies. If the Resistance “kills” the unit, then the USAAF gets a “returned air crew” unit in England [possibly after a few turn delay] which can be disbanded to quickly build another [veteran if possible] unit. This would allow for an interesting Resistance Mechanism.

2. [If no radar wave/flak munition exists on a certain tile, it spawns each turn, if one does exist on that tile, it does not spawn] This would avoid having these unbalancing units all over the place. It would be even better if I could script it so the entire map is checked for the presence of an AA-battery or Radar installation unit, and IF that type of “home” unit is present, and IF the radar wave/munitions is not, THEN it spawns on that square. That would make the low-Alt game much more interesting as there would be a real reason to target these units.

3. I’d love to see if it’s possible to truly have the four maps interact with the advanced scripting options, and space. I’d like actions on one map to be seen on all maps. It’s easy enough to destroy certain tiles on two maps with regular TOT, but I’d like to see if lua would allow the restoration on both maps. [IF an engineer “fixes” a specific tile on one map, it is also “fixed” on another].

Anyway at this point it’s all academic until I can get ToTPP functional. I hope it will work on my current Windows 10 machine (Test of Time does fine), but if not, I might need some help finding an older machine on eBay that would be suitable.

It's very nice (and more than a little surprising) to see that this game is still doing so well.
 
I’ve been working this one through the past few days and have decided the civs will now be:


Allies
Allied War Industry
USAAF
RAF


And


Germany
German War Industry
Luftwaffe


One of the main problems with the original design was that the German player simply gets to sit around and basically parry Allied attacks to win. This is a little boring and also acts as though it was a foregone conclusion that the war was lost. The scenario starts in 1942, so this certainly isn’t the case.

The aim of the scenario will be to gain enough air superiority to launch an invasion and capture the other side’s cities. Whereas originally, only the Allies could accomplish this, now the German player can too. By keeping track of flags, either side can trigger conditions that will create “naval armada” units that can ferry their armies across the channel. This way, the German player doesn’t have to simply defend, but can go on the offensive if they do well enough.

The role of the RAF in this scenario will be to destroy enough German cities that the Naval Armada units are created.

The role of the USAAF will be to weaken German war industry to the point where an invasion can actually be successful.

The role of the Luftwaffe’s nighttime air forces will be to destroy enough British cities to trigger half the flags for the naval armada units to be created.

The role of the Luftwaffe’s daytime air forces will be to thwart enough U.S. bombing raids so as to trigger enough flags to combine with the British city triggers to create the Armada.

The economy will be slightly different in this scenario, but more or less the same. Basically, I’m adding factory civs to break the industry into three segments for each side.

The Allies will receive “resources” units in the Atlantic which they will have to bring to ports in England to disband at cities in England. Rivers will now be the new “rail roads” and these new “resources” units will be “sea” units to keep them on the tracks after they enter a port.

Disbanding will provide shields for an Allied unit, “procurement officer,” to be spawned. This unit is a land unit and can go where it pleases, though it would of course move faster on a railroad (river). The procurement officer will travel to the factory civ and engage in trade.

The trade will fuel technologies to be researched, as in the previous version.

The technologies available will be:

Increased USAAF Production
Increased RAF Production
Increased Ground Forces Production
Balanced Production


Selection the first tech will provide 30 “finished material” units (also sea) to spawn for the USAAF.
Selection of the second tech will provide 30 “finished material” units (also sea) to spawn for the RAF.
Selection of the third tech will provide 30 “finished material” units (also sea) to spawn for the Allies.
Selection of the fourth tech will provide 10 “finished material” units to each respective “country.”

The civ that gets this “finished material” unit then brings it to their city, and disbands it to rush build whatever unit they are working on.

The exact same thing happens for the Germans, but instead of these units showing up at sea originally, they show up next to units called “Marshalling Yards” – assuming that the Marshalling Yard has not been destroyed.

The resources are brought to a German city to quickly build a procurement officer who will trade with German factories to fuel technological research of the German civ such as:

Increased Daytime Aircraft Production
Increased Nighttime Aircraft Production
Increased Ground Forces Production
Balanced Production

Further, “finished materials” will spawn near German Factories – assuming the factory units have not been destroyed.

So you might be thinking – why bother with the factories when you can cut off the production early by attacking the marshalling yards?

For balance, MOST factories will be in the west, within fairly easy reach of the USAAF. MOST marshalling yards will be in the east.

From the Allied perspective, there is now a legitimate and dire need to target “U-Boat Pens” because – you guessed it – U-Boats will spawn from these to attack the “resources” unit on the high seas – assuming the U-Boat Pen unit has not been destroyed.

The U-Boat Pens, Marshalling Yards, and Factories can ALL be repaired by researching a repair technology – BUT … This is at the expense of researching a production run.

I’m hoping that this concept will create a need for the USAAF to target factories, marshalling yards, and U-Boat pens as this will weaken the German player enough to where D-Day can occur.

Anyway, that’s the theory…
 
I've heard the name of this scenario mentioned before, but I don't think I've actually tried it (at least not the original version). Mind, I might like to give a more polished and expanded version like your discussing a go, however.
 
There's still a link to the unfinished first version from years ago in this thread if you want to play around... It's more or less playable but most graphics are placeholders and it didn't match my aspirations. Given the new functions in TOTPP, I'll be restarting.
 
Progress is going well with the tech tree about 75% done and written and the map maybe 20% done.
I’ve decided against lua scripting as I can more or less accomplish everything I wanted to (except for the cool idea for parachutist) with the regular event language, which has a much larger size under TOTPP apparently.

Anyway, aside from the obvious graphical placeholders, the old game certainly had some issues… Here’s a few I thought of. If you remember any feel free to call them out and I’ll try to fix them:


1. Germany only needs to stay defensive [discussed above – fix in the works as Germany can now conquer England].

2. Bland map because so much was taken up with fuel stores that there wasn’t much to see on the map except a few boring tiles [fixed – fuel stores won’t play as big of a role here so there will be more variety in the map tiles. Also, TOTPP offers more tiles if I need them].

3. Not much point to using the low-alt map [fixed – marshalling yards and sub pens (read: things that can be attacked on first turn from England) will be low alt targets and there will be more incentive to destroy regular army units to prevent their attack and help your invasion. Also, there will be substantially more trains in this version and they are juicy targets].

4. Abstract RAF [fixed – they will be a main player with an important task. This brings up a second issue where there might not be much point to using the low-alt night map. I plan to fix this by allowing transport sites to let trains and army units move around at night if the daylight is too dangerous. The trade-off will be these will be very limited, so if you’re only moving at night, your production is going to be hurt as you can only disband in a few cities quickly rather than many].

5. No great way to hurt the Allies [fixed – keep your sub pens alive and blow their resources unit out of the water].

6. Limited tech race [fixed – additional units allows me greater ability to put “what if” units into play].

7. Cities running out of food, map full of flak battery cities that only exist to make flak [fixed – factory civ will now create most flak. Also, some will spawn on flak units assuming they aren’t dead].

8. Trains constantly running off of tracks making micromanagement tough [fixed – rivers are now navigable by sea units. Trains are sea units. Trains won’t go off of tracks].

9. Difficult to defend some targets [fixed, kind of – high alt targets still require you to intercept the enemy before they get there, but the targets that this is impossible to do for are now low-alt meaning you can place AA-Batteries around them and take other preventative measures. As for the high-alt targets, well, you’ve got an entire turn or two or three to shoot down the bomber stream].

10. East Anglia too crowded with air bases meaning it was tough to assemble without accidentally landing some units [fixed – gameplay concession. USAAF bases will be spread out more on England. This isn’t historically accurate but it will make for better gameplay. I’m also going to name the bases after famous squads like I do with the Germans. I can’t force a player to build a fighter at a fighter base and a bomber at a bomber base, but it’s certainly an option to rehome for those who want a consistent look.

11. No reason to fight in France after certain targets destroyed [fixed – these targets can be repaired and there’s incentive to do this. Also, D-Day invasion barges (or Sea Lion barges) are a one-time only unit meaning that you don’t build more. If you want your invasion to succeed, you need air superiority over this region. This should prompt people to keep fighting there].

12. Airbase unit causes accidental landings [fixed – these will not exist for the Luftwaffe. They will be created by events if Luftwaffe bases are taken by the Allies. The extra event space in TOTPP allows me the flexibility to do this].

There are plenty others but at least these should be resolved.
 
I tested this and it works. No idea if it has been done before (probably has at this stage in the game), but in case it hasn't, and anyone would like to have units be destroyed and then rebuilt over and over again, here's the macro language. I would aim to have a "Romans flag 0" have a separate check flag event where they wouldn't get units created at that marshaling yard every turn where it is on, but would every turn it was off. So until you research the tech to rebuild it, you don't get units there.

@BEGINEVENTS
@INITFLAG
@DEBUG

@IF
UnitKilled
unit=Warriors ; (Marshalling Yard)
attacker=Romans
defender=Japanese
@THEN
GiveTechnology
technology=9
receiver=Romans
TEXT
Now the Romans should get ceremonial burial (Marshalling Yard Destroyed in the scenario)
ENDTEXT
Flag
Continuous
who=Romans
State=on
flag=0
@ENDIF

@IF
ReceivedTechnology
receiver=Romans
technology=56
@THEN
TEXT
Let's see if this works - I'd normally create the unit here again. This should be triggered if Mysticism (repair Marshalling Yard) researched.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
CheckFlag
who=Romans
Technology=56
State=on
flag=0
@THEN
TakeTechnology
whom=Romans
technology=9
TEXT
Now the Romans should lose Ceremonial Burial (Marshalling Yard Destroyed) but have Mysticism and Germans should get a flag on
ENDTEXT
Flag
Continuous
who=Germans
State=on
flag=1
@ENDIF

@IF
CheckFlag
who=Germans
flag=1
State=on
@THEN
TakeTechnology
whom=Romans
technology=56
TEXT
Romans should now lose Mysticism (Repair Marshalling Yard), meaning they lack both techs. Also, German flag should come off, meaning you can create Warriors (Marshalling Yard) and go through this cycle again and again.
ENDTEXT
Flag
Continuous
who=Germans
State=off
flag=1
@ENDIF

@ENDEVENTS
 
You know, if this does work out and can be brought to the majestic fruition you're discussing, many of these techniques might allow someone to bring the LONG unfinished Battle of Britain scenario to a final life.
 
You know, if this does work out and can be brought to the majestic fruition you're discussing, many of these techniques might allow someone to bring the LONG unfinished Battle of Britain scenario to a final life.

Well if I complete it or not is one thing, but the concept works. Just needs a separate event for create unit tied to the existence (or rather lack thereof) of the "destroyed" tech... so, have a 3rd civ get a flag when "destroyed" is received, and when that flag is checked, no unit appears. When "restored" is researched, the flag is marked off for the third civ.

The reason I never finished this was movers destroyed my computer and having just bought a house, I wasn't about to buy another. So, I am reasonably confident I should finis this, at which point I'd love to tackle Battle of Britain. That's going to depend on if there are still 2 people playing this game, as that would be MP as well.
 
A few more game concepts...

RAF Bomber Command

I’m trying to make the RAF Bomber Command campaign fun, and reflective of the actual challenges faced. I aim to do this a few ways:

- I’m toying with the idea of alternative starts to the scenario, like I did in Germanicus. The idea would be that the targets would move slightly so you wouldn’t exactly know where they are, and if you simply launched blind, you might miss them. While I can’t go too crazy given the targets are actually cities, I think a variance of +5-6 tiles from the actual location would be acceptable on the night map and would add to the fun.

- Window – TNO’s work has made window possible with the “truly invisible” units feature. Basically, window will be a unit that is invisible to the German player, that the Allied player will place strategically around their bomber stream so that German aircraft heading to attack the stream will have their attack wasted on the window unit.

- Radar – I got rid of radar waves in the last game but with the invisible units and also night campaign, I think they are important again. This, and flak burst, will not be buildable units but instead will spawn on a terrain every turn. They will be controlled by the factor Civ and their range will be limited so it is impossible for them to land in a city ever. You use it or lose it. Radar is also defeated by window because radar has an attack (and hp and fp) of 1, and is destroyed after attack.

- Fog of War – Most of the map will be covered, for the RAF to uncover during raids. Yes, people generally knew the shape of Europe. They did not know where every single fighter base was, or where every secret German production facility was. I think games with an active fog of war are fun.
 
Progress continues... Unit list finalized and implemented in rules. Map transport relationships work for each unit. I need to test and make sure techs and production works for each civ. I'm also still working on the maps. I hope to have basic testing completed by the end of the week and hopefully the maps completed by then too, so I can start building the scenario.
 
Progress continues, though I haven’t actually “broken ground” yet as I keep going back and forth over the units list and tech list (I’d really prefer not to have to hex edit anything, so I want to try and get this right from the start). I know what units I definitely want but I’m trying to decide if more targets are necessary or not. I’ve been biding my time by finalizing terrain graphics while I mull my options over (I’m pretty pleased with how this is going).

The maps are also more or less finalized though I want to be a bit more thoughtful about how I place cloud cover as these will provide a defensive bonus (I've decided that the low alt map will actually cut everything's defense in half, and aircraft will be affected by terrain. This means that land forces really won't have terrain advantages, but I figure that this is an air scenario first, and while there are dozens of aircraft, there's only a handful of land forces, so it's better to have the air combat be more interesting).

One thing I'm spending a lot of time on is trying to provide some relevance for the different maps and units, especially the army units.

In the last version, there really wasn’t anything for the ground forces to do until D-Day was triggered. I don’t want this to be the case again, so I’ve decided to add “Operatives” (diplomats) to the game. These can paradrop and then generally cause trouble. Only the air force civs will have them, and they will be allowed to steal most techs.

I hope that these (and the Resistance) will encourage regular patrols by the army forces to make sure that there is nothing amiss. A house rule will be that while you must disclose to the other player what units you destroy turn by turn, you do not need to disclose covert actions. Some units (though no air units) are actually bribable, so if patrols don’t take place, these can position themselves to wreck some havoc on supply lines. (The house rule would imply that you don’t need to disclose the bribery of the unit, nor would you need to disclose their movement—even if they choose to sit on a rail road factory. If you, however, used that unit to attack something, or pillage a terrain square, then you would need to disclose THAT).
 
Ran into a minor problem with my navigable rivers units (resources, flak trains, etc.) - any units that are within the first 80 slots that have the ability to navigate rivers seem to lose the ability to have their sprite be overridden, meaning that the correct unit won't show up. The solution was to move them into 81-127 units, which don't normally have sprites unless you add a section in the rules text to enable them.

This creates a new issue because I've been told that attacks per turn does not work for units 81-127. Thus, the flak train is likely going to be dropped in favor of another target - probably another marshalling yard (I can always beef up the defense of the regular train to simulate it having flak defenses).

20 years or so later and it's still so much fun to design scenarios because of all the little quirks you encounter.
 
Ran into a minor problem with my navigable rivers units (resources, flak trains, etc.) - any units that are within the first 80 slots that have the ability to navigate rivers seem to lose the ability to have their sprite be overridden, meaning that the correct unit won't show up. The solution was to move them into 81-127 units, which don't normally have sprites unless you add a section in the rules text to enable them.

This creates a new issue because I've been told that attacks per turn does not work for units 81-127. Thus, the flak train is likely going to be dropped in favor of another target - probably another marshalling yard (I can always beef up the defense of the regular train to simulate it having flak defenses).

20 years or so later and it's still so much fun to design scenarios because of all the little quirks you encounter.
There should be a file for the unit sprite animations (I'd have to check the exact name of that file in ToT) that's used in many later ToT scenarios out of the Scenario League that's just 'blank' (that is, no unit sprite animation data) that I think you can just copy from many of the later SL ToT scenarios into your own. It was likely Catfish who made it in the first place.
 
There should be a file for the unit sprite animations (I'd have to check the exact name of that file in ToT) that's used in many later ToT scenarios out of the Scenario League that's just 'blank' (that is, no unit sprite animation data) that I think you can just copy from many of the later SL ToT scenarios into your own. It was likely Catfish who made it in the first place.

Good to know - thanks!

Testing reveals that the navigable rivers seems to cause quite a few issues and confuse the game. Yes, the rivers function works, and will keep my trains on the tracks, but adding the "1" to make it work also confuses the game into thinking that the unit should be invisible until attacked (and that the sprite option shouldn't work). This is definitely unfortunate, because I don't want to have invisible trains, but at the same time the need to keep them on the actual tracks is so great that I'd rather have trains the player has to search for on the tracks than trains that can wander along the countryside.
 
Well, ground has been broken. All cities are placed. All units are placed. Most things in the actual map are complete - just need to edit the cities for the Germans and Allies (all the air forces, etc. are already done). Once that is complete, it is just the events and balancing/internal playtesting. I think I'm going to have to break out some dice for my play test and invent some rules for myself to keep it fun (roll 1-3 and the radar finds the bomber stream, roll 3-6 and it doesn't).

The events will likely take a very long time to type. The good news and bad news of TOTpp.

Hang in there - this scenario is finally going to see life, darn it!!!
 
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