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Over the Reich - Prof. Garfield vs. JPetroski

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by JPetroski, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I've noticed you haven't been building fuel dumps on your refineries. If I haven't just been 'unlucky' in my scouting, you may want to consider that. The railyards increase the trade by 50%.

    If we want to tweak science rates throughout the game, I think we can change the number of future techs each tribe has to achieve a desired tech cost, at least approximately. I've had a tech rate of about a tech every 2 turns for a while now, which might be a bit fast. Maybe we can link the future techs to the current science rate, so very high science is offset somewhat by an extra cost (diminishing returns of research). We might want to do a weighted average, so the player doesn't switch from high to low science rate to game the system.
     

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  2. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Apologies for the late turn, I've been ill.

    Chalk this up to "John's just not that good at Civ2" and thank you for the reminder/tip!

    Did you build any aircraft factories? Maybe the Allies shouldn't have them? I've been able to maintain about 3 per turn for awhile. I would prefer that Germany have the advantage but perhaps they do and I just have played poorly.

    I've been thinking a bit more about the "critical industries" and was considering that perhaps Peenemunde could somehow allow the Germans to get some freight/trade units, probably on a point scale. Perhaps the points reset or there is some other flag that flies after it has been attacked. If we scaled the points so it takes 200 (or whatever large amount) for the first "production run" but then get additional productions every 25 or 50 points, then knocking it out would mean you start all over again and have to get the more difficult 200 to streamline production again. This would be a way to balance against the Schweinfurt effect of losing the industry techs (if you only targeted Schweinfurt, Peenemunde's research could bring the Germans back up to speed quickly, but if you targeted both, there'd be no way around going the long way).

    I was also considering that perhaps destroying Regensburg would immediately resets all cities producing 109s to 0 shield production. I could figure out the major 190, 110, and 262 factories and they too could be a critical industry with the same effect for their respective planes. I can tell you that while I do rely heavily on freight trains, once I get aircraft to cost about 500 or so fuel points, I often rush them. This would reset that completely and would probably also cause me to build a larger variety so that I am not bottlenecking myself.

    I do think that these targets probably shouldn't provide points to the Allies to balance things, because otherwise why target anything else? (Especially if there are a number of them linked to various production lines).
     

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  3. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    changelog

    Payload units are re-homed after production (if possible). This should minimize mistakes of activating a non unit from the city screen and expecting it to re-arm. The "can't re-arm" message will only show onActivation, not after production.

    Units can't fire munitions, make reactive attacks, or defend themselves in combat if they are beyond their maximum operating radius (movement times half of unit range, rounded down) from an airbase.

    I hope you're feeling better. I was busy the past couple days anyway.

    I've been at 80% research for some time now, though I believe that I'm running a surplus even at that. Winning the Battle of the Atlantic means that I have tons of cash from convoy deliveries. At the moment, I simply have a few cities at a time build all the improvements that they have available, while the others build trains. Aircraft factories are part of the build order, usually after other things have been completed, especially after refineries.

    If we gave the Allies the Fundamentalism government, we could set a maximum science rate for them, though that would mean other things would have to change. According to the function reference, the tribe's science rate is only a 'get' variable, so we can't set it every turn.

    We could just flat out give Germany science beakers each turn as the Peenemunde bonus. Maybe the bonus increases each turn that the facility is not attacked (i.e. the research goes on uninterrupted), so the Germans will eventually get a tech per turn unless the Allies periodically attack the facility. Or, we could give an airfield near Peenemunde the ability to produce certain units for which Germany hasn't completed the tech yet. The ability would be useful, but still limited to a single airfield.

    Unfortunately, we don't have access to the current production order of cities (we only have access when something is actually produced), so that particular ability can't be used. Maybe a Regensburg airfield could produce 2 ME109s at a time instead of one (this should be possible with an onProduction event).

    Yes, that makes sense.
     

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  4. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Ooof! The tide has definitely turned.

    A fundamentalist government is probably a good step. I don't know that unhappiness was ever really going to matter to the Allies, anyway.

    I guess it depends on how the fundamentalist change works. If that is sufficient to keep the Germans above tech than the Allies, then we can go with the units. We'd probably just use V-1 and V-2 rockets as those were what the facility really produced. Also any of the jet aircraft would cause balance issues.

    This could work. I don't know if 2 per production is enough to warrant a special mission but I'm sure we could tweak the number. It shouldn't be too imbalanced given that you only get the 2 (or whatever) when you produce one, so you still need to bring trains etc. there.

    I do see that we still have two improvements that we could use (mass transit and barracks). Of the two mass transit would probably be better. So, we could modify the strategic bombing code to destroy/create the "critical target" unit as well. Then we could just check and see if the Germans have the improvement it in a particular city or not for the desired effect to take place.
     

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  5. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Changes:

    Pathfinders now produce 10 window at full health. Maybe this will have to be reduced. Window has movement of 2. I figure this way a pathfinder can 'simulate' a raid, but only for a turn. If Window is used to 'block' attacks, maybe this will have to be changed.
    ["Pathfinder"] = {unitType = unitAliases.Pathfinder, healthTable = {{.3,3},{.6,3},{.9,3}}}

    Fixed the rules so that P-38L can be produced by the allies.
     

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  6. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Oof again

    The Schweinfurt raid having knocked out all 3 of my industry makes these attacks especially crippling!
     

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  7. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    If we're going to change "historic missions" to critical industries, maybe you should give yourself the technology back. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend rebuilding the factories that I just destroyed anyway.

    On the topic of changes, should I have a maximum rate of science? If we're thinking of giving the Allies fundamentalism, then maybe I should.

    I had a new experience this turn, of bombers actually returning in relatively good order from attacking a daylight target in Germany. This may signal a change in the 'stage' of the game, where Germany goes from competitive to holding out for turn 125. Or, maybe all that will happen is that German forces will be built up again.
     

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  8. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I have to get the kid to bed and can't mess around, but I might give back 2/3 of the Industry techs if we are both in agreement that we're going to have Schweinfurt raids reduce them one at a time. If you hit a factory at Schweinfurt, I'll take a 2nd one away, and then a 3rd as a way of replicating this for now.

    Keep going full blast - it will help us figure out what to reduce it by. I'm interested to see how many techs in total you reach by the end of the game. I'm sure it's more complicated than this but I'm figuring if you get 40 techs and we only wanted you to get 20, we'd cut it to 50% and more or less achieve that. Try and keep track of how many times you research future tech if you end up getting it.

    Yes, you have far more units than I do in total now and that will only increase. I have a very difficult time attacking you. On the other hand you've done a really fine job of coordinating attacks and also the historic missions didn't help (15 trains is a big deal in an attrition game). I'm thinking about different ways to string it along a little better for the Germans mid game (if we find that is necessary) but there should be a turning point. I squandered a lot of planes attacking aircraft I didn't need to, and your use of the 17's is leading me to bleed heavily.
     

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  9. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Yes, do that.

    OK. Fundamentalism gives two mechanisms to control science. One is the well known percentage reduction, and the other is to set a maximum 'effective' science rate, above which trade allocated to science doesn't actually produce science (I think it is diverted to taxes). We'll probably want to control both.

    I'm still getting event reinforcements. Do those go on forever, or do they stop? If they stop, then maybe they should stop sooner.

    Maybe we could make some event that gives the Germans a bonus when they lose a lot of daylight stuff near the Rhine. That seems to be an in-game signal of a shift in the balance of air power, and not something the Allies can easily forego to deny the German player the bonus.
     

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  10. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Turn 56 - cheat mode used to restore Industry I and II. Will remove when a factory at Schweinfurt is hit again.

    They don't go on forever but I gave the RAF 5x reinforcements and the USAAF 7x reinforcements. Both end at a little over 500 points but maybe they should end at an earlier point? The 15th AF is reinforced throughout the game but you actually have to earn points by a deadline for them.

    Ah ok.
     

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  11. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    If they're just about over now, then I would leave them in as they are. It's conceivable that a poorly thought out attack would still leave me somewhat short of planes.
     

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  12. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Turn 57
     

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  13. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I killed an experten on the night map. It took 3 Mosquito attacks to bring it down, though nearly all the damage was done by the second attack. The unit didn't disappear into the night, so it should probably be added to the nightEscapeUnits table, maybe with a custom escape radius table. Feel free to re-create the unit if you were expecting it to be able to flee from attack.

    In the same way that we can stop all damage from certain kinds of munitions, I think it is possible to make it so that a single attack can't do more than x damage (5, for example) in an attack. We could do this to prevent 'lucky' shots. However, that might be more trouble than it is worth.
     

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  14. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    As tempting as it would be to take any advantage you give me, and even though - yes, he should probably have escaped - if you attacked him with 3 different Mosquitos, you got him. I left him out, you killed him, and I doubt the night escape would have saved him from that many fighters. We should make the fix for the Experten eventually but we'll play on. Well done!

    As long as there will be unlucky shots, there ought to be lucky ones as well, IMO.

    For what it's worth, I still feel that a German victory is "plausible" though picking battles is becoming much, much more important. I have some regrets about how I played that will make me better next time but we aren't in full blown despair mode just yet :)
     

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  15. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Changelog:

    I implemented "GOTO hotkeys". Press 0 in the view mode to set a goto destination for key 7,8, or 9 (all keys above letters). Press the corresponding key with an active unit, and it will immediately be given the goto order to go to that tile (on the map it is currently on). Not sure how useful this will be to the Germans, but I already love them.

    I've run into the 200 local variable limit in Events.lua. I got around this by introducing the table overTwoHundred, and putting a few locals in there. If you use this table, you will probably need to move its definition up in the file somewhat. This doesn't apply to any local variables inside other functions.

    I don't think this will impact the changes to the damage schedules you have planned, since those are already in tables, but it is something to be aware of.

    The events are yours if you want them.
     

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  16. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I tweaked some stuff. Of note:

    -Typhoons, Tempest, Fw190A8 and Spits now all fire "heavy guns" (hispano renamed). Prior "heavy guns" now called "Jet guns" (the unit is different exclusively for sounds).
    -Fw190A8 rocket attack now takes 0 MP.
    -Fw190A8 cost increased from 40 to 65 shield rows. This should be pretty significant and increase the number of A5s out there.
    -Decreased Fw190A8 defenses from 5 to 4. I don't think it was an issue to kill them in the first place but now there should be none. They are deadly on offensive, but must be defended. Another reason for 109s to show up.
    -Did not change reactive fire. Seemed like a big project for little gain and I was concerned there'd be no need for bomber destroyers, so I elected to upgun the A8 instead. The 190A8 will still get chewed up by your bomber formations if bomber destroyers don't thin them out first.
    -Noticed an error where Me410 only cost 20 instead of 40 shield rows - changed.
    -Reduced cost of German main night fighters from 60 to 40. They are less effective given the "escape" mechanism than the Me110 and I couldn't justify 50% higher cost. The player basically now gets to make a decision of spending 40 for something that can move faster and has radar, or 40 for something that has rockets and does 'ok' on both maps. May need further tweaking.
    -Spitfire cost reduced to 25 in hopes of prompting more to be built.
    -Fixed describe text issue for P-47D40 and modified it for 190s and Spits.
    -Reduced cost of German jabo fighters slightly (20, 25, 30 for Stuka - Do335) mainly because they can't go to high altitude and I don't see them being produced unless less expensive.
    -I didn't make these changes until after my turn as I was concerned that I wouldn't get one out to you if I got too deep into the events early. Just be aware that if you see 190A8s now you may want to focus on them over A5s as they are more dangerous.

    I think that is about it. Events are available.
     

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  17. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I just tested this out and this is incredible. At some point I really need to add a "quality of life" section to the readme where I describe all the little shortcuts you've built that make the game play that much quicker.
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Well, I did use Spitfires this turn. The flak in Cologne-Essen-Dortmund-Dusseldorf is starting to become a problem with the splash damage.
     

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  19. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Certainly wish I'd invested in it earlier!
     

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  20. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I finally realized that my typical "rally point" is right over a railtrack that now has 4 flack trains on it...
     

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