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Over the Reich - Prof. Garfield vs. JPetroski

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by JPetroski, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Turn 61
     

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  2. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Turn 62
     

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  3. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I just played a few minutes and noticed that the 15th air force is not defensively reacting to any attacks from 190A8 on any map. I do not know why this is. Since the first thing I did on this turn was attack your formation near Munich I decided I would just pause and wait to see if you have an idea why before pressing forward. I'd like those units to be able to harm mine and it hardly seems fair that they don't, but I can't spot the error unless the local limit is somehow now affecting this?
     
  4. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I went ahead and just played figuring that given they only defend as well as a B-24 anyway, they probably wouldn't have done much damage. We should move to try and fix it though (I thought I had earlier in the playtest but now for some unknown reason it again does not work).
     

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  5. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    This was a problem with the 'stay in range' mechanic. I've fixed it.
     

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  6. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Turn 63
     

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  7. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Turn 64

    First tempest attacks, and more railyards bombed.
     

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  8. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Turn 64

    Germany is on high alert for an invasion given the recent Allied move towards destroying the rail lines.
     

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  9. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Changelog:

    Fixed the bug in the combat reporting for attacks made in the current turn. It should now work.

    Pressing 'p' (while the unit is active) and then a direction arrow (arrows or number pad) makes the unit in question travel in that direction until it has 2 movement points left. It will also stop before entering a city, or when it spots an enemy unit (the goto command is used).
     

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  10. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Ughhh... Noticed you invaded very late in my turn. Thought the battle group was softening stuff up. You got the drop on me!
     

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  11. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Turn 66
     

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  12. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I'd have to check but I want to say you invaded right around this time last game as well.
     

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  13. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Do railtracks still impart the river bonus? That might explain why some urban targets seem much tougher to kill than others, and why some ground units seem harder to kill.

    The allies have yet to capture a city, but they have captured airfield infrastructure and intend to support air operations without a major port. This plan is called 'bold' by supporters, and 'foolhardy' by detractors. A defeat could have serious political implications.
     

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  14. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I'm going to need to take some time to play this turn because your invasion triggered every single one of my cities to fall into disorder. I'm positive that shouldn't happen if someone only grabs an airfield but I'm wondering if that shouldn't happen until German soil itself is captured as it is a stark collapse. We can push forward but it might take a bit to sort through this one - it's going to be a doozy!
     
  15. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I presume that you were given a tech and a wonder expired. Maybe just go into cheat mode on my turn and take the tech away, or go to the rules and change the expiry on the wonder.
     
  16. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I did this for now. When do you think the wonder (Bach) should go obsolete? When the first city is captured, or at a later time? Consider the effects:

    -Every single city, without fail, will fall into disorder;
    -The tech rate will increase from about 3 turns to 5 or 6 due to the need to fund luxuries/happiness.

    I'm not positive that D-Day is the right time for this, even though the wonder is currently called "The Atlantic Wall." Consider that the Germans still had a good half year's fight in them until they spent themselves completely at the Ardennes. I'm wondering if maybe the arrival of the Soviets is best? 1500 points plus D-Day? Or perhaps that as one possibility or the Allies capturing a city in Germany (so it could either fire when the Russians show up if the Allies gain 1500 points, or would occur when the Rhine is pierced if the Allies invade early). You have just under 1,000 points now so I'm not sure if you'll trigger the Soviets with the current conditions.

    Unfortunately the end game is not nearly as well tested as the early game and I doubt it ever will be so we're just going to have to make some projections and forecasts and do what we think is best.

    Edit - attached is the temporary rules change
     

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  17. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I'll think about what to do with Bach's. One thing we could do is make it so that the wonder is made obsolete after German production, so that there is no 'all cities go into disorder' problem.

    I noticed Gun battery defence is 50, which makes it defend as a battle group (except that it can be reduced below 10 hp). I didn't think that we were having any units that could stand up to a Battle group. Gun batteries also seem to be able to unload onto beaches, so I'll have to update the harbour user list at some point.

    This turn I lost a battle group attacking St. Nazaire. Given that I reduced the depleted battle group to 10 hp, this doesn't portend well for the future. We may have to look into combat a little bit, or change it so that battle groups can be weakened more with munitions. Or, maybe the river bonus is still applied. Will have to think about this more later, when I'm not tired.
     

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  18. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Maybe I'm just a little worn out from shoveling but I don't see where I can change the defensive bonus of a river - is this a hard coded thing? I didn't see it in Cosmic and didn't check if TNO made it something that could be changed in cosmic2

    I did change the rules to reduce the gun battery to 30 defense from 50. I went with 30 because I'm pretty sure they'd be one shot by most of your Tempests if they were lower than that, but we'll see.

    I'm not opposed to increasing how much you can damage a battle group - maybe 25%? The goal is simply to not allow it to be completely destroyed by the air.

    At some point when you don't have the events, I need to take a look at the reactions a bit because I don't think the 190F8 is actually triggering anything and it should. I probably made an error or left it out of a .ds or something and I'll need to look into that.

    I have Thursday and Friday off so if the events were available at some point then, I would aim to tweak them.
     

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  19. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Haven't tweaked the events yet for the updated max battle group damage. If you want to work on the events, just say that you have them.

    I think it is hard coded. It is fairly easy to fix the problem on the railtrack terrain by simply reducing that terrain's defensive bonus to 50% from 100%. The trouble comes from other terrain types. At night, the river defense bonus makes a huge difference in how easy it is to kill urban targets. A couple lancasters can usually kill an urban target without railtrack under it, but it is much more difficult to kill targets with railtrack. This isn't necessarily a huge problem that some targets are softer than others, but it means balance might have to be checked a little.

    The more serious problem is that fighting on the ground is impacted, particularly fighting between battlegroups, and only because battle group battles have such high stakes, since there are so few of them, especially for the Western Allies. Maybe when a battle group is defeated, a counter is started to recruit a replacement in 10 turns, but only one battle group can be recruited at a time (so significant losses hurt, but modest ones can be recovered from).

    We can use lua to override the battle calculation, and substitute in our own if we like.

    Increasing the maximum munition damage would increase the advantage of air power, which would favour the Western Allies in combat.

    Maybe make it 10, and give it x2 vs Air, which I think actually means x3 vs Air and x5 vs missiles. That would protect it from bombardment, but mean a battle group can rush in and defeat it.
     

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  20. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    I made this change in the attached rules file.

    Probably not a bad idea given they have so few ground forces.

    I think as the Western Allies you could simply do the 10 turn countdown and have them show up in Portsmouth. I don't think you need to do one at a time - I think we're going to find that the Allies have a time crunch to conquer what they need to with the comparative ground forces strength so any 10 turn delay is going to hurt. I'm not sure it will imbalance things that much to allow all battle groups to regenerate for the Allies. They certainly had the manpower for it. If you recall which turn you lost your battle group, respawn it on the 10th turn via cheat mode.

    I can't do much to help you in this playtest but what I can do is work out the railtrack change (which I forgot to make in the rules but you can change if you like) to 50% defensive bonus for one, and secondly I can remove the rivers from any of the urban/factory terrain on the night map. They're basically there for cosmetic reasons and don't serve a purpose other than that. I think if it's causing unrealistic advantages then we should just have it look a little off so it is playable. It's not "that' big of a project and something I can update for the final release. I don't think it's really worth it at this point of the playtest to modify our save file but if you are planning to hit a target that has a river under it and want to go through the trouble of changing the tile first, that's fine by me.
     

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