P666-04 : Yet Another Trash Game

[mice]

So hard to pick a 'winner' out of that round.

To respond to fbelintani's question, in the previous games the discussion about how to judge the games was as educational as the discussion on the games themselves.

In this round I'm counting out people with a second city, settler very near to built, and then adding up comm/turn , hammers/turn, and total beakers, maybe food , and I'm just going to use those figures to choose.

I guess scouting is also key at this point.

It seems everyone is playing well, which means that with such a big roster it's going to be a really good game. Lots of variety.

 

[futurehermit]

General comment so far:

-Getting that copper is asap #1 priority imo, esp for a conquest game. Many players so far don't even have a settler queud up, let alone built!

-Improving more than 3 tiles in the capital early on is unnecessary imo. You're not going to be at 4+ pop that early. Just improve what you need then get your worker doing more important things.

These two things were consistent across many of the games, so I thought I'd throw them out there.

 

[mice]

You're right. When I saw your game I thought, I should have that settler chopped out by now.

 

[cabert]

My usual way to assess a game is to see how it comes closer to the goal.
The first round, although very important is also the hardest to judge, because there are so many options.

What is conquest about?
IMHO we need to tech fast to feodalism (vassals!)+ construction (UU)
There will be a lot of free room on the map for barbs after we raze loads of cities.
So the great wall would be very valuable (that's why I go for it, although a settler first would be good, but my exploration didn't give me a good copper spot) (+ whipping a settler is fast at size 4, sorry to contradict you futurehermit but we're playing only prince level).

Good facts :
- resources (horse or copper at this stage) connected or near connection
- techs known
- total population (it's easier to whip an army when you have people!)
- units : number, position, promotions
- exploration (where are our targets? where are the resources? what good production city sites are there around?)
- tile improvement/infrastructure (granary someone?)
- some "strategy" that you can see coming (if a gamble succeeds the position afterwards can be great, if it doesn't it's no good)

 

[pigswill]

Yet another opinion. First round is about establishing expansion potential. So for me its about exploration (locating neighbours, locating resources particularly metals and hosses, identifying sites for next few cities) and city growth potential (worker techs, worker(s), commerce,food, hammers) and expansion (settler, escorts).

 

[futurehermit]

Do vassals count for conquest? I assumed we had to wipe everyone off the map?

@ cabert I know we're only playing prince level, but regardless I still think that the faster we get that copper hooked up and into the first AI's lands, the faster we will eliminate our first rival (good idea imo considering the victory condition). plus, both our first rivals are protective, even more reason to get in there asap imo.

 

[cabert]

Do vassals count for conquest? I assumed we had to wipe everyone off the map?

@ cabert I know we're only playing prince level, but regardless I still think that the faster we get that copper hooked up and into the first AI's lands, the faster we will eliminate our first rival (good idea imo considering the victory condition). plus, both our first rivals are protective, even more reason to get in there asap imo.

vassals are considered eliminated
and what i meant about "prince level" isn't you don't need the copper.
It's more about happiness cap and such = you can grow bigger and whip a settler. Something you can't do at higher levels.

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, well vassals will help A LOT I agree that construction and feudalism should be top priority then. Will the AI research fast enough that we can trade for feudalism at a reasonable point???

Yeah, I know we could grow and whip the settler, but I still think the best plan is to get that copper on board and attack asap. But I'm open to whatever the masses agree to.

 

[cabert]

Ok, well vassals will help A LOT I agree that construction and feudalism should be top priority then. Will the AI research fast enough that we can trade for feudalism at a reasonable point???

Yeah, I know we could grow and whip the settler, but I still think the best plan is to get that copper on board and attack asap. But I'm open to whatever the masses agree to.

for now, open all the saves, look for the 3 least succesfull ones and send your votes for trash game to pigswill

 

[futurehermit]

already did it

 

[cabert]

already did it

ho,
maybe I should drink my own potion, and finally open those saves

 

[mice]

Yeah, I thought, why is Cabert building the Great Wall? but it's obvious,conquest will involve pesky barbs right to the end. For this victory condition it really is a great wonder, useful to the end of the game.
The sad part is we almost certainly won't be playing from a save with it half built.

 

[futurehermit]

Imo we could build GW after 1st city is out. Some people say that barbs are there to promote your units I'm not one of them, I like the GW.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to the next round and fixing some trash

When do we go next round?

 

[mice]

Imo we could build GW after 1st city is out.

I hope you,re right. Next city , copper, and Asoka seems to have a bullseye appearing on his forehead.

Next round starts when Pigswill announces which save to play from. Latest would be Sunday I expect.

 

[futurehermit]

Tbh, with copper and the placement of our cities (coastal), I don't think we'll have to worry about barbs for quite awhile and by that time hopefully we'll have access to horses. Chariots are a great barb-killer.

 

[cabert]

Edit : pigswill, I'll vote without opening the saves (just from the write ups).

If someone can tell me exactly (PM please) for every save
- the various techs,
- the population,
- the number of workers/settlers/units
- an appreciation of the exploration (for instance mine is really bad : not much land uncovered, no copper found, ...)

I may change my vote (but I don't think so).

 

[Cam_H]

(Some help has been provided from moi to Cabert.)

 

[cabert]

(Some help has been provided from moi to Cabert.)

much appreciated.
I stick to my votes, pigswill.

 

[pigswill]

Waiting for votes from Endzz and Chiller. At the moment its pretty close so these votes will be decisive.

Spoiler :

I voted cabert as weakest game because starting great wall then researching priesthood for oracle without a second city is not a solid foundation for expansion.
Cam-H's game was my favourite this round, reasonable exploration and research, picked up Hinduism, close to second city near copper looked like the best all round start.
Futurehermit's game was very much a warmonger's start which got copper available early at the cost of general growth potential.

 

[cabert]

edit : we had agreed to stick to secret votes, and the vote isn't over yet...