Paired Mafia - game thread

That makes me feel great. :p

Winning as SK in a vanilla game with no mafia is hard enough. Winning with vigilantes and mafia is harder. Winning with masons is harder. Winning with wound, doc, provoker, blocker.... etc.

This setup meant no matter what you did Verarde, you would lose the game. What was your cover role? Who could you claim as a partner?

The longer you live, the more likely it will be that you get caught by process of elimination alone, but there's also nightkill stoppages and masonry, and a larger team (mafia) which will vote for or kill you over themselves anyday.

The SK does not win this game even if he knew who everyone was at all times and what their powers were. That's how bad you were boned by the game setup.

Nothing against the host, SK roles are suicide roles anyway, they rarely win even in a "balanced" setup. But here, it was impossible unless all the other sides were really trying to hurt themselves and made zero correct moves. Even then, you'll end up with mason pairs and that's a default 2:1 advantage. You have no alibi and no partner, you're toast from the starting setup.
 
Right. No partner meant that if I had to claim a partner, that person's partner would speak up and say, "PFFT NO." Somehow, I get SK roles often. I almost won in Seon's NOTW: No Tomorrow as a SK, but RL took me away from that game before I could.
 
I'm fairly certain that the only SK victory that I have ever seen was the Joker (landlubber) in Dark Night Mafia hosted by Pizza.
 
I came pretty damn close in the Princess Bride (my first mafia game, btw. No Tomorrow was my first game ever). SKs are one of my favorite roles to play.
 
Disappointing, to say the least. To get screwed with one poorly-timed move is not awesome after a) a relatively flawless performance by us to date and b) the townies playing like total crap (you did, I'm not beating around the bush here. Awful play outside of choxorn pointing and clicking me at exactly the right time. You want to find scum, you show up and vote more than once in a blue moon. The day phases were a joke). I have mixed feelings about the game as a whole, specifically about the endgame and in particular, the inclusion of the Serial Killer.

The setup as a whole intrigued me. Mafia vs a whole bunch of masons with no abilities at the start plus maybe a third party is something new and different. I have to admit, once I saw my mafia partners I felt really confident we could pull this off. Though once I started thinking about the game's design, and especially once a Serial Killer showed up, I started having some doubts.

Due to the setup, the mafia had a very difficult time coming up with alibis, partners, and abilities for the endgame. This game is a rare example of how with more kills, the *more* powerful the townies can get due to the way abilities are handed out. At the start, we had it very easy, but as players died we started getting very lost as to who has what abilities, who has/had a partner, and what abilities are currently in the game. If it wasn't for Blackadder revealing to ATPG, we would have known absolutely nothing as to who was who and what abilities were out there. Truth is, we only contacted Blackadder due to a host error where we initially thought he was the double-voter due to a voting tally screw-up. No error = very little chance we reach out like that and in turn, means no way we have anything tangible to work with. It's why we (I) scanned instead of killing choxorn, we knew nothing, and this was the only way we were ever going to learn anything.

I wasn't surprised to see no townie network form outside of chox and Gamez. The setup again leads to isolation between the pairs, as 1) no one can reveal alive partners and 2) No one will admit to dead partners as doing so reveals *you* have an ability. Tangentially, I will say I was happy to see a rule stating the dead can't participate. It would have been absolutely game-breaking if they could, and it almost happened with landlubber showing up, though not in the way I would have imagined. I supposed Gamez's role was a way to develop one, but I'd argue there's balance between the mafia's not ever knowing anything and the townies not having a scan-based network form. Ideally, the townies should be using the lynch vote to network, but you guys did none of that, so this lack of communication, both in-game (the lynch vote) and out of game (getting people on board for a particular lynch vote) really should have penalized you more. As an aside, I'd like to see Gamez's and Verarde's role PM's.

I never, ever expected there to be a S/K in the game. As ATPG outlined, he had zero chance of winning. None whatsoever. His inclusion made the mafia winning that much harder due to 1) him possibly killing one of us (he did), and 2) killing townies and opening up more abilities into the game. While he never did kill any townies due to dumb luck, the possibility was there for him and the mafia to kill a ton of people and open up a lot of powerful abilities into the game by the midgame. Whereas if there's only one team killing (us) the midgame gets stalled until later, which means there's more lynches to look for information in - where the voting blocks are, who's accusing who, etc etc. As far as the possible abilities go, I wasn't a fan of there being two ways to stop night killing, specifically an injury one which (I assume) would be made public. I'm hoping this wouldn't be the case, but if so had we attacked the wounded dude, for a day phase there'd be an instant townie network forming around the only guy who was now proven innocent through his ability, and due to pure dumb luck the mafia or S/K would have created this network pretty much by themselves. That possibility didn't sit well and also pointed me toward scanning that fateful night - I really didn't want to hit him instead. Alas, we already lynched him, but had no way of knowing (and ever knowing).

All in all, I loved the premise, hated the outcome not because we lost but how we lost. I'm a firm believer that if 1) mafia play close to perfect and 2) the townies play dumb, the mafia should win. You got really lucky, and we got really unlucky, and that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. This post isn't meant to be a shot at anyone in particular, so please don't read into it. I'm just really disappointed with how it all played out.
 
Jarrema said:
Role: Serial Killer

You are a 'Lone Wolf'. You win when everyone in a game is SINGLE (have no pair). You win if at this moment you are alive.
After your victory, game ends for you but mafia and town still fights. Your victory has nothing to do with theirs.

You can attack one person each night.
If this person have a pair, you kill him/her.
If not, you just leave a note "you are so alone. Just like me. Live, you sad creature"

Remember, that there is a possibility for a person without a pair to gain one. So, if someone is lonely, it does not mean for 100% that he will be lonely for the entire game.

First night attack against you will not kill you, but wound you. After being wounded, you can no longer attack others at night. You can still vote and even win, but it will not be easy for you.

There's my PM.
 
That's actually more balanced and reasonable than a normal serial killer role would be in this spot, but still a ridiculously difficult role. Did the mafia need to be alone, too, or just all the townies?

I won't deny that we were lucky, but it wasn't all luck. I still had to make the correct calls, and I still had to convince the town to lynch you and not me.
 
Mafia had to be alone too.
Yes, it was really difficult role, but I hope less so than normal SK.
Remember that Verarde was unlucky with his kills, and also rather unlucky with being lynched.
If he had been extremaly ucky, he could theoretically win the game after night 3!
(he needed two mafia and six townies dead).
I wanted badly to put some kind of SK into game, and that he would have at least some chances to win. What could I do more for this role?
 
As for the tie at lynch:
I did not announced it, but I planned to do it such way:
1. if there was a tie between people from the same pair, there would be no lynch and they pair status would be made public
2. in other cases, there would be double lynch.

As for abilities: remember, that majority of them was really limited - roleblocker with only two uses of his ability, protector who dies if he protects someone, one-shot vigilante, etc.
 
Role PM of Gamezrule:
Role: Pair-less townie
Aligment: town

Each night, you can scan someone and learn if you can make pair with him. You can only make pair with a lonely townie (i. e. townie who has lost his pair mate). After becoming part of this new pair, you will lose this ability and become regular paired townie.
Special: new member of your pair will not lose his ability gained as lonely townie
 
I made two big mistakes during the game, but one of them didnt affected it:
1. I telled Choxorn, that Daveshack is his new pair mate. Fortunatelly, he managed to read his dead PM before sharing this info in mafia qt
2. I made mistake at counting votes, which lead ATPG into thinking that Capt. Blackadder is a double-voter.


Here goes my short gamelog:

Day 1:
No lynch
Night 1:
Mafia (BL) kills Landlubber. BSmith gets ‘lucky’ ability
Verarde tries to kill Landlubber, but finds him dead!
Day 2:
Big Tin lynched. Choxorn gets ‘roleblocker’ ability
Night 2:
Gamezrule scans Choxorn… and makes a new pair with him!
Mafia (BL) kills Zack. Capt. Blackadder gains ‘provoker’ ability
Verarde kills Daveshack. Mafia gains special ability to scan in place of night kill
Day 3
BSmith lynched. He was without a pair.
Night 3
Choxorn uses one of his roleblockings on Verarde.
Mafia kills Kennigit. Turquoiside becomes taxi driver.
Verarde tries to kill Classical Hero, but is blocked by Choxorn (first use of ability, one left).
Day 4
Verarde lynched.
Night 4
Turquoiside uses taxi driver ability to switch Red Spy and Choxorn.
Mafia kills Capt. Blackadder
Day 5
Classical Hero lynched, Red Spy WoG-ed (was Classical Hero’s partner)
Night 5
ATPG scans Choxorn (instead of mafia kill) and learns he is a roleblocker.
Choxorn blocks Backwards Logic
Day 6
Backwards Logic lynched, Mafia (well, ATPG) gains special ability to scan together with kill
Night 6:
Turquoiside use taxi driver ability to switch himself with a Choxorn. ATPG tries to kill Choxorn, but kills Turquoiside instead.
Day 7:
ATPG lynched.
Town victory!
 
I no longer have my PM. My entire PM folder was emptied last week, save for EPYC messages.

I'd appreciate it if Jarrema posted it. ;)
 
Gamez: posted already :)
 
I got extremely lucky with my scan and found choxorn. Without that, we might not have won at the end.
 
Winning as SK in a vanilla game with no mafia is hard enough. Winning with vigilantes and mafia is harder. Winning with masons is harder. Winning with wound, doc, provoker, blocker.... etc.

This setup meant no matter what you did Verarde, you would lose the game. What was your cover role? Who could you claim as a partner?

The longer you live, the more likely it will be that you get caught by process of elimination alone, but there's also nightkill stoppages and masonry, and a larger team (mafia) which will vote for or kill you over themselves anyday.

The SK does not win this game even if he knew who everyone was at all times and what their powers were. That's how bad you were boned by the game setup.

Nothing against the host, SK roles are suicide roles anyway, they rarely win even in a "balanced" setup. But here, it was impossible unless all the other sides were really trying to hurt themselves and made zero correct moves. Even then, you'll end up with mason pairs and that's a default 2:1 advantage. You have no alibi and no partner, you're toast from the starting setup.

Which is exactly why I think the serial killer's victory condition should be "Kill x amount of people".

Oh, and I won as a serial killer in Night of the Mindworms. :mischief:
 
And the other was a roleblocker who'd already won.
 
There were two players left, and one of them was a serial killer...

That's a standard victory, not a draw.

Who hosted that game? Both should be marked down as a win if the roleblocker "already won" because that is not a draw. The SK wins if he outnumbers/ties the remaining folks in 99% of all games.
 
It was landlubber's NOTW, was a fun one. It wasn't really a traditional game - everyone had individual, factional victory conditions - nor really a full serial killer situation either - Zack was on a team with remake iirc (though their goal was to kill everyone else) and at the end it was the last of our 4 person townish team that as mentioned, already achieved victory objectives (converting people to a religion, and adopting democracy, and whatever else it was)

It doesn't look like this game's setup really had the traditional, vanilla-style serial killer anyway, where the serial killer is the single, only winner after killing everyone. Or at the least all town and mafia lose, maybe another third party could win along the way in a larger game. Plenty of neutral-ish/sk roles have been in games where they escape/achieve their victory in tandem with other teams, and I do prefer it that way too since it's more reasonable for those player roles to win.

In this game, Verarde clearly had bad luck and was out early. The role seemed interesting though. By setup it could have been possible for the "serial killer" here to work with the town if given the chance- at the very least that seems liked it could have been claimed as a last resort against lynch. The role wasn't nightkillable by the mafia right away and could tell the townies he'd try to kill whomever they asked for if the town would accept that - and then hope he'd get to everybody "pairless" eventually, even win alongside the town (in theory).

I tend to agree SKs are just hard to play and often face bad luck, trick is to make them fun enough even in a losing effort or not have the "vanilla" style serial killer role. The Joker in the Dark Knight is the only sole serial killer win I recall seeing around here, though a couple NOTWs came close. And while I didn't play in it, I did see the conclusion of a game on the org a while back where Seon had a truly beautiful win as a serial killer (Mewtwo, in a Pokemon game).
 
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