Palmyra, Collab Mod

[Natan35]

Wow, that's not very kind of you.... Considering its his art. He wasn't nice, but how would you feel if someone would take your work, which you spent time on, and used it for a completely different(well, different) way than you originally thought?

(I'm no modder, just saying. But this was a rather hostile day in the forums.

 

[ldvhl]

They had their own unique pantheon of gods, so ideally they'd have their own religion, but that would probably be the closest otherwise.

 

[Natan35]

Shouldn't they follow Baalism?

 

[Tarmont]

They had their own unique pantheon of gods, so ideally they'd have their own religion, but that would probably be the closest otherwise.

They had some unique gods, most where generic semitic ones like Baal, or arabic and mesopotamic. I also think that you guys are overstating the religious side of palmyrene history. Commerce and even military (Though not that much, tbh. The only time they were truly a major power was during their roman splinter period, and even then Aurelian reconquered their asses pretty quickly) should play a larger role here.

 

[lordrj15]

Yes, trade is an absolute, and religion only really in the sense of it having such a diverse culture.

Perhaps I should do some research, see what I can come up with.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Wow, that's not very kind of you.... Considering its his art. He wasn't nice, but how would you feel if someone would take your work, which you spent time on, and used it for a completely different(well, different) way than you originally thought?

(I'm no modder, just saying. But this was a rather hostile day in the forums.

The art that was linked by Sargon earlier isn't Jan's. It's TPang's and SnowyNix's.

They had some unique gods, most where generic semitic ones like Baal, or arabic and mesopotamic. I also think that you guys are overstating the religious side of palmyrene history. Commerce and even military (Though not that much, tbh. The only time they were truly a major power was during their roman splinter period, and even then Aurelian reconquered their asses pretty quickly) should play a larger role here.

Yeah I'm probably trying to put too much of their history in the design all at once and as a result it's not really distributed as evenly as it could or should be. I still think the UI is a must regardless.

 

[Firebug]

Wow, that's not very kind of you.... Considering its his art. He wasn't nice, but how would you feel if someone would take your work, which you spent time on, and used it for a completely different(well, different) way than you originally thought?

(I'm no modder, just saying. But this was a rather hostile day in the forums.

1. Its not his
2. I never planned on using it, please read the post from earlier please. I explain it

Now leave it.


On another note, i'll read up more about their religion when i have the opportunity and see if its worth trying to mod their own religion in. Dunno if its worth it in the end, but it might be.

 

[Howard Tafty]

Adding support isnt as hard a people think, trust me its pretty okay, you just have to do the job of inserting the support files and references.

 

[Danmacsch]

A little late to the party here (and quite a bit of drama it seems), but is Uighur_Caesar's design from here the latest draft (or the final one for that matter)? Might be convenient to put it in the OP.

I like the UI a lot. Is the Great People points generation just for random Great People? Maybe it would be more beneficial to tie it closer to the UA/UU somehow. I'm not really feeling the rest of the design, though. The UU, though useful for sure, is a bit too generic in my opinion. And I agree with Howard Tafty that the whole Golden Age thing is a bit random and IMO doesn't really fit the civ much. If it's okay with you guys, I'll see if I can come up with something.

And Firebug, I've had some experience with using Trello for civ projects and IMHO that's pretty useful - especially if the project is being worked on by multiple people.

 

[lordrj15]

yes, I feel that once we have enough people, we should, actually get organised somehow XD

Or else we won't get anything done

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I second that thought about a Trello.

The UA is really random because people were thinking of trade and wonders in the UA so I randomly come up with Golden Ages as a way to facilitate that focus. It could be changed of course. The UU is also plain because I simplified it from my earlier design since I thought we were going for a less war orientated design. I personally think a new UA and my old UU or the version suggested by TinyLittleBirds would work well. The only element I'm 100% adamant about keeping is the UI.

 

[TinyLittleBirdy]

I second that thought about a Trello.

The UA is really random because people were thinking of trade and wonders in the UA so I randomly come up with Golden Ages as a way to facilitate that focus. It could be changed of course. The UU is also plain because I simplified it from my earlier design since I thought we were going for a less war orientated design. I personally think a new UA and my old UU or the version suggested by TinyLittleBirds would work well. The only element I'm 100% adamant about keeping is the UI.

I really love the idea of Funery Towers as a UI, but a have some worries. One of the main problems with them is that they can only be built on desert tiles, which while thematically makes sense, is potentially crippling gameplaywise. Desert tiles are pretty useless, and settling near a lot of desert will cripple growth and production. Funery towers compound this issue by discouraging building farms on Desert tiles, significantly lowering food output. Basically, Funery towers encourage you to settle undesirable locations for extra culture and faith, and I'm not sure if the tradeoff is worth it.

This issue however, could be remedied either by switching to a UB, which I don't find optimal, adding Food or Production bonuses to the UI, which I find unrealistic, or by having a UA that potentially offsets some of the disadvantages of settling near a desert, which I think would be the best solution.

 

[Howard Tafty]

Well looks like everybody completely discarding my design...
Oh well I still heavily recommend Wonder Production as I still think its very fitting and at least I still quite like that aspect as a side focus, if anything Clibanarri as established has to be powerful in some way and the UI I think everyone can agree on is something that should be incorporated.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I really love the idea of Funery Towers as a UI, but a have some worries. One of the main problems with them is that they can only be built on desert tiles, which while thematically makes sense, is potentially crippling gameplaywise. Desert tiles are pretty useless, and settling near a lot of desert will cripple growth and production. Funery towers compound this issue by discouraging building farms on Desert tiles, significantly lowering food output. Basically, Funery towers encourage you to settle undesirable locations for extra culture and faith, and I'm not sure if the tradeoff is worth it.

This issue however, could be remedied either by switching to a UB, which I don't find optimal, adding Food or Production bonuses to the UI, which I find unrealistic, or by having a UA that potentially offsets some of the disadvantages of settling near a desert, which I think would be the best solution.

Yeah I had thought about that whole desert thing before. Maybe this could be added to whatever the UA is going to be: "Desert tiles adjacent to cities or oases yield +1 Food and +1 Production." Palmyra was a thriving oasis city after all so it's not entirely forced in there. Also, the UA name I've been using is called "Pearl of the Desert" which I saw Palmyra referred to an article before so it would make sense.

 

[Klisz]

Plus the start bias should probably be desert anyway.

 

[SULOMON]

I really love the idea of Funery Towers as a UI, but a have some worries. One of the main problems with them is that they can only be built on desert tiles, which while thematically makes sense, is potentially crippling gameplaywise. Desert tiles are pretty useless, and settling near a lot of desert will cripple growth and production. Funery towers compound this issue by discouraging building farms on Desert tiles, significantly lowering food output. Basically, Funery towers encourage you to settle undesirable locations for extra culture and faith, and I'm not sure if the tradeoff is worth it.

This issue however, could be remedied either by switching to a UB, which I don't find optimal, adding Food or Production bonuses to the UI, which I find unrealistic, or by having a UA that potentially offsets some of the disadvantages of settling near a desert, which I think would be the best solution.

It is a possible issue but not as much as you make it out to be. Floodplains and hills still keep a desert start viable. There probably could be some extra food somewhere in the civ design (Like what Uighur suggested) but it's not a large issue.

 

[NiaoMeow]

Can we make the show: "The Real Modders of Palmyra Collab Mod Thread"?
We don't even have to write a script because it's right here!

On a more serious note: I don't think the golden ages ability is very original or historicly accurate, and there are sooooooooooo many golden age civs... so maybe one of the designs that ties in trade, wonder building and war (from most important to least important) with some faith.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Moderator Action: Things have got rather heated in the thread. I have sent hiram a message outside of civfanatics to see how he feels about stuff created for his version of Palmyra being used here; hopefully he will respond, but there's no guarantee. In the meantime, please keep things civil here.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

As much as I wish to avoid controversy, I can never help myself when a design is needed...

The Palmyrene Empire​

Leader: Zenobia
UA: Pearl of the Desert
Upon claiming a desert tile in any city, choose between +1 population in the Capital or a free Caravan in the nearest city. Upon constructing a wonder in the Capital, claim a nearby random Desert tile for free, even if it is outside city limits or within another Civilisations borders.

UU: Clibanarii (Replaces Horseman)
The Clibanarii, unlike the Horseman it replaces, receives +3 experience per trade route to or from the city in which it was trained. When stationed in a city, Clibanarii yield +1 culture per level, or +2 culture in desert cities.

UI: Tower Tomb
The Tower Tomb may only be constructed on Desert tiles, after researching Masonry, and never adjacent to another Tower Tomb. The Tower Tomb yields +1 food and +2 culture, for that tile, plus an additional +1 culture and +1 production when constructing a wonder. Whenever a citizen is born anywhere in the empire, receive gold and culture for every Tower Tomb in the Empire.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Eh, I'm not feeling this one that much.

The first half of the UA looks really powerful. If there's a decent amount of desert around you, you'll have a huge capital and a bunch of caravans way too easy in my opinion. No real problem with the UU, although I do have a qualm with a heavy cavalry unit not feeling heavy. The UI is also weird to me. Not being able to build them next to each other makes no sense historically, although I do understand you're doing it for gameplay reasons. It giving food also doesn't make sense to me. It not giving faith is also weird to me, but understandable considering how many other yields and effects you gave it.