Paragon Strategy

[youtien]

OK, now there's new difficulty, and we abusers(I'd rather call myself this type) got new challenges, let's start a new thread.

Overall:

Since tech penalty is very high in paragon difficulty, it's better to use spy. Grab lands in early game, stay 100% gold, get many commerce and then steal tech. After you are big there's no difference with old emperors.

600 AD, Spanish:

1. Switch to slavery - warrior code, found Burgeos on iron as capital, Santiago 3W from it. One knight go SE-NE to get near Barcelona(1 crossbowmen defending, can win), all other units go to raze Bordeaux. Initial worker go chop forest, 3 workers build pastures.

2. Raze Bordeaux and Marseilles as usual. Santiago whip work boat - galley - pagan temple, capital build pagan temple - settler (no whipping), Barcelona build barracks - catapults. Load settler and 1 worker toward Scotland to settle Edinburgh on iron in 840 AD (the turn English flips).

3. Attack Moors around 820 AD, ASAP, they can't stand against your 2 initial knights. Make peace after you capture Cordoba, switch to theocracy + agrarianism on the same turn, then go siege Rome.

4. Meanwhile, Burgeos build another settler and found a city on iron hill in France, 1W2S from Frankfurt, 1E2N from Marseilles, so Franks would never get iron in this game.

5. Germans would likely to siege Rome by their initial army, rob Rome from them, then make peace. Capture Venice and Naples too.

6. Start using spy against Franks, steal any tech they have, I got aesthetics and civil service.

7. Prepare 2 spies for Portugal spawn, use full EP on them, after 5 turns, I stole guilds for only 600+ EP, engineering for 550+ EP. Build Notre Dame (I used a great engineer).

8. Prepare at least 8 horse archers and upgrade them to knights as you get guilds, prepare 3 galley and at least 1 trireme, wipe out Moors.

9. Capture or Raze Lisbon and capitulate Portugese.

10 Play at will!

 

[Fresol]

Good thread.

But do you have any goals in mind? Historical victory or domination? It will be best if you can give the respective key points, besides early game, which is important as well.

 

[youtien]

Good thread.

But do you have any goals in mind? Historical victory or domination? It will be best if you can give the respective key points, besides early game, which is important as well.

Not sure which victory I'd like to go for, but I can play at will as long as there's no match to me.

Steal gunpowder from Turks(gift them a crap city like Agadir), beeline astronomy, then Spanish would have the strongest army at the time: 12 power conqustador and 8 power bombards with 10 exp(5 from citadel). About our rivals, English and French got no iron because of my settler, Vikings always collapse by themselves, Moors die early, Portugese is destined to be my vassal without Lisbon present, I only have to win Holy Romans upon 30 years war, and that's piece of cake with my SoD. Dutch? They'll live for only 10 turns.

 

[Fresol]

Here's my Khmer UHV strategy:

Key point 1: Rushed Indonesia with my 3 Ballista Elephants and 1 Archer. They have a chance to spawn at war, so take advantage of it. I positioned the Archer at 1W of the stone hill(my own Jayakarta), to block off their possible settler landing on the tile. And the 3 BEs I positioned them at the grassland hill(Indonesia's spawn tile) and the forest 1N of it. Their Buddhist Missionary and Settler then appeared in the jungle as easy prey(1 free worker!), and 1 turn later Indonesia landed all their other units on the iron hill(there was a total of 3 Archers and 2 settler). I killed 2 of the Archers at the same turn, and one turn after, I took their city. A perfect start with 1 free city on a terrific spot and 5 free workers!

Key point 2: Trick a temple in Bang Makok(yep, it's the better city choice) and build a Library there quickly. Work scientists and priest there for a Great Scientist(I thought I needed 2 of them, but it turned out 1 was enough in my case). The GS can bulb Philosophy(1500/2700). Settle Hanoi and improve tiles around it, you need to build the Wat Preah Pisnulok there.

Key point 3: Take Pagan after you are done with the Indonesians. The Shwedagon Paya enables Scholasticism which is essential for Khmer UHV.

Key point 4: Take Gron Kyer Me Tog! If you can manage this(I took it from the Tibetan, and I consider myself lucky since it would be harder to fight the independents, seriously), then UHV's in your bag. The double shrine Gron Kyer Me Tog would greatly boost your economy. And my research path was: Sailing->Calendar->Alphabet->(Currency traded)->Philosophy->Aesthetics->Drama(for culture slider and theater and Great Artist!). Other techs are non-essential. My second Great Person was a Prophet, not optimal but it was OK, and my 3rd GP was a Great Artist. With good economy I didn't need another Great Artist.

With some basic skills in DoC there goes your Paragon Khmer UHV win!

The attached savegame is in SVN revision 765.

 

[youtien]

Well done, good work abusing Indonesians. Khmers don't have many targets to exploit, but they don't have threat either. I might attack Japan after taking Patliputra.

 

[Fresol]

Alright, now about Tamil UHV strategy.

Tamil's historical goals are not tech-oriented, therefore the difficulty level does not have too much influence on actual difficulty of the game. However, AI India gets better tech rate and building/unit modifiers which makes them harder to fight against.

Tamil's first goal is about culture(2000) and gold(3000). It's pretty obvious that Great Persons are involved. With my city settlement, I had 4 cities: Cochin, Chennai, Mumbai(captured with my initial 2 war elepants and a swordman, a gamble of luck), and that iron hill island city which I can't read the name. I built Sangam in all of them and worked an artist in each of them for a period of time, and built(more like whipped, Tamil's building modifier is fit for whipping) all culture buildings possible. This was enough for the culture goal. For the gold part, a Great Merchant to Parsa(2000 gold) and 20 turns of commerce invested on gold did the job. I think I got the Great Merchant from Cochin.

The second goal was about territory contol: Deccan and Srivijaya(sorry I don't know how to spell it!). The latter one: Indonesia is a piece of cake, since their starting units are pathetic. The former one, however, means to contest India. Now this is not a joke, typically India has swordmen, axemen, spearmen and soon war elephants around Tamil spawn. So personally I think the only chance to take Deccan is to attack India from game start. And another important thing: pick starts. Pick ones that India has settled Mumbai(100%) and Kolkata but nothing more south. In this way you only have to capture Mumbai, which is still possible. If there's any other city in Deccan I don't think you're likely to make it. Oh and settle Chenai as fast as possible(on second turn). Cochin should be capital though, you need culture expansion to catch the fish and cow.

The 3rd gold: 4000 gold(or 5000? I don't quite remember) from all sorts of trade, can be achieved with help of another Great Merchant(from Chennai, for example). Don't forget to save/load if you get the wrong type of GP.

Make peace with India as soon as you have captured Mumbai(they won't be willing to, so you need to defend Mumbai and kill some of the Indian troops before you can make peace). They are actually very friendly even after you declared war on them once(they need to be Hindu of course). Trade all possible techs with everyone to boost your own tech situation. Get Currency(important to economy. Calendar? Useful but not that important) and aim for Compass(sea control). Oh and you need 2-3 boats to transport units to attack Indonesia. They have a trireme so bring at least one boat other than galley. Around 800 AD will be a good timing.

SVN 765

 

[JiimBV]

... to be added later

It's good to see someone else settling Cochin and Chennai! Especially on Paragon.

 

[Fresol]

India UHV strategy.

1st goal: two shrines. India's base GP point is 140, so work priest specialists early. Go Masonry->Priesthood for example. You also need the happiness from temples. With help of S/L, I didn't worry about polluting the GP pool with some scientists. I settled Dhaka on coast btw.

2nd goal: 20 temples. This is the one I consider to be the hardest of all 3. 10 cities in the Indian subcontinent is a bit crampled up, besides, 200+ hammers for a settler is to be taken seriously. In my game, I took a city from the Tamils(blocked the indie city from spawning), and settled the iron hill island city(again) and Viskawhatsitsname west of the sugar. And the gems hill! Settle it as soon as possible, it's much better than Mumbai(never really grows or does anything), I even settle there when playing as China. Back on topic: I also settled Kunming. Lahore was standard. Then I was still 1 city short(had 9)! Then China collapsed, leaving cities to independents with warrior garrison. I took Guangzhou and Fuzhou and whipped a few temples there. In general, one needs to plan his way to acquire enough cities. Either place them closely together or get them by conquest, or settle in the flipzones if you insist.

3rd goal: 20% of world population in 1200 AD. By that time the European cities are pretty big, so you need more than the Indian subcontinent. Consider Southern China, Indochina and Srivijaya(spelling) to be your targets. I took them all. Persia is not a good choice, their cities don't grow and barbarians rampage the land.

Playing as India requires a bit of farming/building skill, and you need to watch out for the barbs in Northwest India. They appear shortly after Tamils spawn(300 BC). And there's barb war elepants everywhere so have one spearman/warrior(which can be upgraded if neccesary) in your other cities. Go for Calendar and Currency(both critical for economy), and get Iron Working in between because it's around that time barbarians start appearing. Don't settle cities near China too soon, you can't send units to defend them from barbs, and you may draw China's aggression. In my game I switched to Buddhism and China seemed quite friendly. They declared on Persia but not me and their collapse really helped me out(though I think China collapses WAAAYYY too often. Even after rebirth they collapsed a second time with only 3 core cities, several turns before the Mongols appeared).

Even the Babylonians outlasted China.

SVN revision 770

 

[Fresol]

One of the more powerful ancient civs, quick victory. I'll add details later.

SVN revision 774

 

[Fresol]

And my two other P/N games from the 1.11 UHV challenge thread:

Vikings and Iranians.

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

Hello. Want to share my strategies for Paragon difficulty too, it's actually very interesting that new difficulty has been implemented. It's actually almost the same as modmodmodmod, because it changes absolutely everything.
Have no screenshots and saved games as rest here, just want to share my strategies.
Spain(because they have 2 starting knights)

1. City placement :
Capital - Pamplona (1N from iron), then raze Barcelona and Bordeaux, 2nd city - Valencia (on silver), 3rd - Santiago.

2. Medieval era conquests:
Raze Cordoba, as soon as peace treaty has ended, it will give more room for Valencia and at least level 3 for knights, or maybe even great general.

After it France. In this case their starting stack of units was walking somewhere (with pikeman, they left 2x longbowman per city). Level 3 knight has around 70% chance against longbowman, so, conquering France isn't big deal. Actually great general knight can deal with pikeman too.

After it Egypt without loosing a time. Galley in Valencia already should be prepared. In my case Arabs already was unstable in some reasons and was fighting independent cities, but anyways they shouldn't have pikemen by that time.

Conquest of Egypt is most significant moment, without it I would rather restart the game. +1 trade rout in all coastal cities, GL, gold, cotton and tons of flood plains gives very decent research rate, decent enough to settle first city in America already in the beginning of 15th century.

3. Improvements:
All river/grassland - cottages, grassland(not river) and plains - workshops, grassland/hills - mines. Also couple of workshops for Paris and Nantes/Brest in grassland/river.

4. Aztec/Inca:
Before to conquer them, research/buy/steal gunpowder. Raze all aztec cities. Take Cuzco(for gold and silver) don't touch rest.

5. 10 gold/silver:
1 - Valencia, 2 - Tampico/Veracruz, 3 - Yax Mutal, 4 - Manila, 5 - Egypt(need 750 culture on "epic", if you razing El-Uqsur), 6,7,8 - Sonoma, 9 - Medellin (on gold 1W from Bogota), 10,11 - Cuzco,12 - Santa Fe, 13 in deserts in Mexico, etc We have the choise

6. 40% of catolicism:
Ask everyone to adopt Fanaticism, that protestantism didn't spread in new founded colonies. If someone converts to protestantism during refomation, load the game few turns earlier, AI always takes different decisions.

If Russia will allow open borders, then 40% won't be a problem. But in my case they didn't allow(with good relations), so I have built workshop on banana and mine on sugar near Manila, during golden age city was producing 1 missionare every 2-3 turns to spread catolicism in China and India. Mercenaries is alternative too, but expensive.

7. Bingo!

 

[Fresol]

It's nice to have someone else sharing strategy here.

Welcome to the forums!

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

France. France starting without knights, it's significant disadvantage. Because we need to conquer not only Rome, but also Spain and Egypt. On Paragon difficulty if playing as France for UHV, research Guilds first prolly would be wrong decision, because while you researching Guilds, AI (usually Vikings or Holy Rome) will do research Engineering. Besides Holy Rome has crazy production and they will build Notre Dame literally in a couple of turns.
So my decision was to research first civil service. It's cheap technology, allows to adopt bureaucracy for additional commerce, allows to produce heavy swordsmen. And after it Engineering, manage to research it in the same time with Vikings in 12 century. In a couple of my attempts to play for UHV, Notre Dame was only the problem, but it was resolved finally.

Startegy:
1. Conquests:
Personally I prefer to raze Bordeaux, don't like this place, Nantes is many more times better, and doesn't overlaps with Marseille. Lost only 1 longbowman against this two crossbowmen after couple of restarts. It worth of it, really.

Rome. Sometimes independents leaving Rome, as on screenshot, not sure why, but possibly because they "see", that Paris has no city defenders and maybe trying to capture it^^

Spoiler :

It's actually free experience and after battle for Bordeaux and with group of indies near Marsielle I managed to get first Great General

Spoiler :

Usually I'm chopping trees near Marsielle to make 2-3 catapults, to siege Rome, but in this time, that guy - Charles Martel, managed to win already in his first battle against Longbowman on 7% chance^^.

Spoiler :

There remained only 1 longbowman and axeman. In next turn Rome fell... Probably the best situation I ever had, managed to take Rome already in 820AD.

The next is Spain.
Needless to say, that for 3 catapults, Charles Martel, longbowman medic, pikeman and rest, Spain isn't a big problem.
Raze Barselona (to build Valencia on silver) and Madrid.
What i've had after war with Spain

Spoiler :

Not many, but both swordsmen-cityraiders are Generals. And after upgrade to heavy swordsmen, with helping of couple of catapults they managed to conquer Egypt.

Egypt.
Arrived there in the beginning of 12th century. Fatimid Caliphate already respawned.

Spoiler :

Also tried to take arabian Al-Quds, but didn't managed, only after third attempt already in 16th century.

2.Culture
Build Opera House in Paris, put 5 great artist(2 theatre, 3 opera house) build Leaning tower and Cathedral. Birth rate will be 1GA each 12-13 turns. Be the first to discover Patronage. I've had 28.000 culture in 1700.

3. 40% of Europe.
Spain has been weakened in the beginning, taking rest of Iberia isn't a problem. Italy isn't a problem too. Prussia. Take couple of cities and Prussia will agree to capitulate, even if they still would have quite decent armys remained. Settling NA isn't a problem.

4. World Wonders.
Notre Dame. Everything is clear now with Notre Dame on Paragon.
Buy Divine Right from Mali to build Versalles. For Patronage: civil service->Engineering->Drama->Music->Steal Guilds->Patronage.
Statue of Liberty and Eifel Tower. To build this wonders we need good research rate. When we captured Rome, silver of Valencia, Egypt, we already was working for good research rate, from the very beginning. Adopt republic fast as possible, build cottages many as possible, adopt capitalism.

15.371 Augustus Caesar

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Fresol]

Very nice work!

Maybe we need another OP whick links to these strategies.

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

Easiest UHV among all civilizations, if you know when Seljuks spawn and what to do with Turks. So...

1.The beginning. Arabs.
Take all units from Egypt and Al-Quds (4 units) and load them in starting galleys. And put galleys near Cyprus (not in Arab flip area). Move 2 archers from Sam.

Arabs will start in a war with you, right in this turn take Baghdad with starting Cataphract and move it 1 tile away from the city.

In next turn "agree" to give Cairo, Alexandria, Al-Quds, Sam,Baghdad to Arabs, and right in this turn just retake empty Baghdad with cataphract, amphibious attack on empty Al-Quds from first galley (2 archers), amphibious attack form 2nd galley on empty Alexandria with 1st unit (borders of Alexandria will expand on wheat near city), unload 2nd unit and take empty Cairo. Raze Sam.

After you conquered 4 cities and razed one, Arabs will agree to cease fire

2. 5000 Gold in treasury.
It's simple. Constantinopolis starting with both - market and grocer, so, just put 4 merchants, couple of any other specialists for good birth rate. I managed to get 2nd merchant already in 800AD.

Spoiler :

Conduct a trade mission with 2 merchants in China or Korea. In Korea trade misson was giving me 1.500 gold each merchant.

Spoiler :

Besides, establishing contact with China is very important, it's not only rich trade routs, but also silk and rice. If you are in a war with independents in India, send couple of cataphracts with your merchants. 3000 gold and 400 gold of starting treasury isn't enough obviously, so I stopped financing research in 910AD and it was giving me up to 200 gold per turn.

Spoiler :

2.Seljuks.
They appears in 1080AD near Baghdad, Ikonion, Trapezon. Where would we get armies to stop Seljuks? We should start think about it from the very beginning. Build infrastructure around Baghdad(it was producing cataphract each 2-3 turns), near Belgrad and near Ikonion, Trapezon already has infrastructure in the beginning. Only this 4 cities was producing cataphracts for me, and turned out that it's enough. 6 cataphracts in Baghdad and 5 in Ikonion.
What I've had after battles with Seljuks.

Spoiler :

They conquered Trapezon, but 7 cataphracts survived and I returned city after healing.
Besides Byzatium starting with mercenaries, we can hurry units in a worst case...

3.Mongols.
Isn't a problem in any way. But I prefer to avoid meet them, because their armies appears randomly. They can appear in Egypt or near Constantinopolis, Baghdad - anywhere. Keeping 2-3 cataphracts in every city instead of using them to conquer, say, India isn't best idea. So, avoid them.
Raze Merv and Samarkand(it's doable even before seljuk invasion) and pillage all roads that Mongols have never met you. Their invasion on seljuk territory is scripted, but they won't be able to take Shiraz, after they will lose all units, retake Shiraz and expand in India (we got to do something, while we are waiting for 1450AD, right?)
(Actually I have met them, but i've had pikemen in all cities in that days)

4.Turks.
Do not build a road on that hill, where they appears. Never ever.

Spoiler :

Prepare cataphracts not far from Ikonion and longbows with city defence promo for Constantinoplis, that AI wasn't thinking that it's easy target.
And let them take Ikonion in next turn. We didn't build road on their starting hill, that is why they cannot bring any units in Ikonion, except knights.

Spoiler :

Right in this turn just retake city. Duh! Their huge starting army with hundreds of bombards disappears. Remove all units from their flip area. Actually they will respawn on next turn, but with small army. And this already isn't big deal.

5.Rest is easy.
Most cultured/most populous in 1.200. During all the game Constantinopolis was most cultured, closer to 1.200 most populous with 16 or 17 population.
3 cities on Balkans: Belgrad, Athens, Constantinopolis.
3 Near East: Al-Quds, Ikonion, Trapezon.
3 North Africa: Cairo, Alexandria, Tripoli (just take Tripoli in the beginning of 15th century).

Spoiler :

20.621 Augustus Caesar

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

Very nice work!

Thanks.

 

[Fresol]

Nice Byzantium game. And I'd like to add a few comments: watch out for culture bomb, research drama and get a Great Artist for yourself, just in case; trade mission to Holy City, preferably more populous ones like Mecca, gives more money. Otherwise, great game!

I'm stuck on a China game where Phoenicia founded Taoism and it never spread into my cities. Gotta go for Confucianism or Domination Victory I guess...

 

[Rackham]

1. Tech strategy
   In paragon, researching up to Astronomy (needed to acquire TC ressources through trade) in time is out of the question, especially now that portugal starts with Meditation, forbidding a GS to bulb optics ; thus the plan is to set research to 0% and split the commerce between wealth and espionage (and spawn a Great Spy)
   I spied on Spain and stole Optics, Astronomy and gold from them, plus a few more techs later but those didn't matter for the victory itself.
2. Buildings
   At start build/whip 4 religious buildings and 2 courthouses (for the spies) in Lisboa/Ponta Delgada ; also build military buildings in Lisboa, and that's it.
3. Units
   After those are built, switch to Fanaticism (i also switch to Agriarianism since Slavery isn't so good for building units under Levy armies) and start building units in Lisboa, ships in Ponta, settlers/workers in both. You should have a few settlers, some triremes (at least 3, upgrade to Carracks) and a few Knights/Crossbows (+1 trebuchet) ready by the time you steal Optics (around 1450).
4. Exploration
   After that, time to settle the first colonies : Belém first to avoid the spot being taken by someone else, South Africa on the gold because it's an awesome spot.
   In my game I actually founded Funchal first, but I don't think its sugar is needed, and it's a very crappy city if the Moors don't collapse (in my game the Moors thrived).
   Send a Carrack exploring the Indian Ocean and opening borders (with a settler who settles Colombo). This Carrack should not depart Lisboa later than 1490 (even earlier if you want to be safe, because sometimes one has to go all the way to Mongolia to open the last border ; alternatively, send an explorer as soon as borders with Spain are open).
   Send a few knights and crossbows (and 1 Trebuchet) to conquer East Africa, and possibly Sana'a if it's still independant.
   Settle Sao Paulo and Muqdisho when you have time, but not too late, and Recife last (should be founded in 1600, when the banana appears).
   It is of the utmost importance to build enough Carracks and be efficient with them (time is precious !) If Astonomy is stolen early enough the 2 upgraded galleys can help alot.
5. Colonization
   Only build workers, and later settlers, in your colonies (except the South Africa gold city that builds a few defenders). You have to hook up all (or almost all) of the TC ressources in the aforementioned cities by 1650. Transport workers as needed by planning in advance.
6. The Trading Company
   Getting astronomy (for the TC corporation) a few turns before 1650 is mandatory ; it shouldn't pose any problem to steal it in time with help of a Great Spy unless Spain really sucks. Also the earlier the better, since Indonesia tends to trade ressources to other civs if you trade with them too late, although I think the corp. doesn't spread before 1600 anyway.
   Optional : start build the Trading Company in Lisboa so that it is completed before 1700 (not actually mandatory, but it helps to complete the cities goal without having to found crap cities or cities outside historical area, which I dislike)
7. Victory
   I got a score of 9301 (19 cities), but it's certainly beatable even with the same strategy, because I didn't really optimize my last 12 turns.

 

[Fresol]

Cool. Now we have more people participating in this thread. Until now there's no repeated strategy(same civ, same victory type) yet, which is good. I just want to mention that besides UHV, there's also the interesting URVs(though most are hard), and the classical type of victories(domination!). Come on guys! Post your strategies!

 

[Fresol]

I'm stuck on a China game where Phoenicia founded Taoism and it never spread into my cities. Gotta go for Confucianism or Domination Victory I guess...

Dang, my domination attempt just failed. I was 50~60 pop short I guess. Next time, I really need to take all of India and maybe Srivijaya under my control. And delete VD... my laptop can't afford it.