Patch v3.13 change list

[JFLNYC]

Just as a note:

Under the Civlopedia description for the Great Scientist unit, it states that you need two or more great people for a golden age. I didn't check the other great people, but would expect to see the same.

Well, in fairness, Take2 has been busy dealing with the SEC investigation about backdating options, plus almost being de-listed by NASDAQ!

 

[Mortac]

I just wish we'd get a real date, or a reason for the delay, or some word. Two deadlines have now passed. I would even be happy with "it will take a few weeks" or some other arbitrary rough timeline. The annoying thing is that we were given an implied date, then we were given a fairly specific range of a couple of days, and both have passed. I understand things come up, but if you were wrong, then admit to it. I am fine with arbitrary projections like "in a few weeks", but the most recent projection we got was the beginning of this week.

I don't know what you're mumbling about. They gave one message saying "they won't release it this week due to new bugs found" and another saying "early next week" which was on a Sunday. If a week begins on a Sunday or not depends on definition, but one should assume when they say "early next week" on the 23rd they mean the 1-3 of October, or they'd have stated in a couple of days.

Unfortunately, online communities are full of crybabies and this is why we rarely see game developers communicate at all. Of course, one could argue about messages being a little unclear and far-in-between at times. Be glad, however, that they gave us patch notes and are posting at all. Like I said, most companies don't even bother, so give them some credit for doing it.

You also ask for a "real date", which is something they can't give you. QA/playtesting will go on until they are done, and then the patch will be released. It's hard to schedule such things to the day, especially when new bugs show up forcing the whole cycle to repeat itself.

 

[Loopy]

Or, it might mean that 90% of the effort. Not all issues are created equal. Some issues take 2 seconds to fix. Some take 2 weeks of solid work.

If you meant 90% effort you would have been better off not saying that it "resolves 90% of the issues". 90% effort is fairly meaningless to the end user anyways. It doesn't matter if a game breaking issue requires a trivial amount of effort to fix or a major amount of effort to fix -- it's still a game breaking issue to the end user.

Personally, when I see a changelog I expect to see the product released shortly there after. I would have been happier with a non-official unsupported beta release once it was "completed". Throw a "hidden" link up on the site or leak it to some fansite. In other words, do it like how beta Catalyst drivers are available before their monthly official release. Or for the optimistic, a more "official" version of Solver's patch. For the more cynical, how the CDs often actually ship. . .

 

[JFLNYC]

I don't know what you're mumbling about. They gave one message saying "they won't release it this week due to new bugs found" and another saying "early next week" which was on a Sunday. If a week begins on a Sunday or not depends on definition, but one should assume when they say "early next week" on the 23rd they mean the 1-3 of October, or they'd have stated in a couple of days.

The post was made "23-09-2007 02:26" GMT. Since Alexman is located on the East Coast of the U.S., that means he made the post on Saturday evening at 9:26 PM. "Early next week," therefore, by its plain meaning, meant early this week. To the extent there was any confusion, Alexman could easily have cleared it up (as he could have with this thread) but he has chosen not to do so.

Unfortunately, online communities are full of crybabies and this is why we rarely see game developers communicate at all. Of course, one could argue about messages being a little unclear and far-in-between at times. Be glad, however, that they gave us patch notes and are posting at all. Like I said, most companies don't even bother, so give them some credit for doing it.

Unfortunately online communities are also full of fanboys and apologists. Take2 had ~$1 Billion in revenue its last fiscal year and over 2,000 employees. There are plenty of resources there to take an occasional minute or two to keep you customer base apprised of a situation, especially when they are saving resources by not hosting their own forum. Your experience may be that "most companies don't even bother," but in my experience, most companies host their own forums and assign people to moderate them and answer questions in a timely manner.

You also ask for a "real date", which is something they can't give you. QA/playtesting will go on until they are done, and then the patch will be released. It's hard to schedule such things to the day, especially when new bugs show up forcing the whole cycle to repeat itself.

ButSam made it clear he'd be "fine with arbitrary projections like 'in a few weeks.'" It amazes that posters go to such great lengths to try to justify poor business practices and communication. Further, dates are often given for the release of software. If it's later determined that the date cannot be met, then well-run companies communicate that fact to their customers and the investment community, if necessary. The notion that "we can't give you any projected date," and "it will be ready when it's ready," may help to explain in part why the stock is trading more than 30% off its 52-week high. You may like how they do business, but Wall Street sure doesn't.

P.S. For comparison, the DJIA is currently less than 1.5% and NASDAQ 0.5% off their respective 52-week highs.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Nice. I agree.

 

[Bhruic]

The notion that "we can't give you any projected date," and "it will be ready when it's ready," may help to explain in part why the stock is trading more than 30% off its 52-week high. You may like how they do business, but Wall Street sure doesn't.

Yes, you're right. The stockholders are all annoyed because they haven't provided a solid release date for the patch.

Bh

 

[JFLNYC]

Yes, you're right. The stockholders are all annoyed because they haven't provided a solid release date for the patch.

Bh

Not enough? And how about these: Do you know why Take2 was almost de-listed by NASDAQ? It was because they failed to file a 10-Q in a timely manner. IOW, they simply failed to file a routine, but important, quarterly form which all publicly-listed companies must file. Between that, plus the SEC investigation for backdating options, plus one or two other issues (e.g., a class action suit against them, an FTC Consent Order), what we're seeing with the last two patches are just examples of systemic problems with a poorly-run company.

Here's what Take2's internal Investigative Team determined concerning their backdating practices:

During the period from April 15, 1997 through June 2006 the Company issued approximately 1,100 stock option grants at irregular intervals and for a variety of reasons including employee hiring, retention and promotion awards, broad-based awards, executive incentive awards and awards made in connection with business acquisitions. The Investigative Team found that the Company, in granting options, failed in many cases to comply with the terms of its Stock Option Plans, did not maintain adequate control and compliance procedures for option grants, and did not generate or maintain adequate or appropriate documentation of such grants.

The class action complaints allege:

consumer deception, false advertising and common law fraud, class action and derivative complaints alleging violations of certain federal securities laws, an action brought by the City Attorney of Los Angeles and actions brought by the estates of certain individuals claiming violations of State manufacturing liability and wrongful death statutes.

Not surprisingly:

At our Annual Stockholders’ Meeting held on March 29, 2007 (the “Annual Meeting”), our stockholders elected to our Board of Directors (the “Board”) five new directors and one incumbent director (the “Alternative Slate”), rather than the six incumbent directors nominated and recommended by our incumbent Board. Immediately following the Annual Meeting, the newly elected Board removed our former President and Chief Executive Officer (“CEO”) and elected a new Chairman and CEO and one additional incumbent director. Our former Chief Financial Officer (“CFO”) resigned shortly thereafter.

The above quotes were taken verbatim from Take2's recent SEC filings (with emphasis supplied).

Continued irrational attempts at defending a company which, over a significant period of time, has been poorly-run from top to bottom is, at best, uninformed and, at worst, downright foolish.

 

[Bhruic]

You do have an amazing ability to completely miss a point. Once again, a nice, long, completely irrelvant post. Well done. Except absolutely none of what you pasted has anything whatsoever to do with the release date of the patch.

Bh

 

[Lobsang1979]

@JFLNYC: You have obviously researched the topic of Take2's corporate performance extensively, which makes a welcome change from the usual generalities found within complaints. If, as you say, Take2 is under pressure as a company due to internal inefficiencies then they will reap the consequences. This is exactly what I was talking about in some previous posts: if people are unhappy with a publisher they should consider their game purchasing practices as the first step in protest, rather than ineffectually complaining on 3rd party forums.

However, I do feel sorry for Heffling who had his post regarding a game issue pretty much hijacked to turn the thread back towards a Take2 good/ Take2 bad debate.

As this thread has probably explored the said debate to death, would it not make more sense for those who wish to continue it to open an appropriate new thread?

That way this thread can return on topic to discussing game issues being addressed by the next patch.

@Heffling: As far as I know, the 2 Great People requirement is across the board.

 

[Arlborn]

People are just flaming now. Ridiculous. I won't be reading this thread until the patch is out. Just stop.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

What two great people requirement? Now we'll need to start with 2 great people for a golden era again? (darn.) what page was that on?

 

[Psyringe]

What two great people requirement? Now we'll need to start with 2 great people for a golden era again? (darn.) what page was that on?

No, you can still start your first golden era with one great person. However, as one poster mentioned, the Civilopedia entry is wrong, as it still mentions that two great persons are needed. It was a bug report, not a change rollback.

JFLNYC: Take a chill pill please. That Take2 isn't the epitome of a well-run company is no secret, but this never influenced Firaxis and the Civ franchise in any tangible way (they still produced a great game after all), and it's definitely off-topic in this thread. At this point you're just flinging mud. That you have to leave the topic so far to *find* some mud to fling should tell you something.

Better yet, after taking the chill pill, sit back for a minute and think about which constructive goal you want to achieve with your posts. Frankly, I don't see one at the moment.

 

[Pilotis]

Hey. That 'class action/SEC' stuff - is that... ? Have we.... ? Are we talking about a GAME here..??? A GAME ferC'sake ???????? Yeh. I'm an addict like y'all sad B'studs. But I can LIVE without it. It's not like my LIVELIHOOD !! Is there anyone can stop this vituperative spiral (Woah!!! Is that a word....? No. Not spiral you a'holes!))

 

[bardolph]

Personally, I'm totally on-board with flaming Firaxis. I love the DESIGN of Civ 4, but the execution has been terrible from the get-go. This game, its expansions, and its patches, have been consistently bloated, buggy, and released behind schedule. This is a turn-based strategy game, yet it requires a top-of-the-line system with the latest video cards and drivers to run, not to mention ludicrous amounts of memory. Why is that? Just so I can have swaying trees and 3D model cities? Ack.

Hopefully, Sid Meier will realize that Firaxis is simply a bad fit for the Civilization franchise, and will move on to another studio.

 

[Pilotis]

And could someone delete that stoopid sticky poll please!!!

 

[JFLNYC]

You do have an amazing ability to completely miss a point. Once again, a nice, long, completely irrelvant post. Well done. Except absolutely none of what you pasted has anything whatsoever to do with the release date of the patch.

Bh

The point, once again, is that Take2's handling of the last two patches are a reflection of larger, systemic problems within their organization. Wall Street knows it, Take2's Board knows it, their shareholders know it and we've seen a glimpse of it. Your continued attempts to defend them with inaccurate information, unsupported arguments and invective have become tiresome.

@JFLNYC: You have obviously researched the topic of Take2's corporate performance extensively, which makes a welcome change from the usual generalities found within complaints. If, as you say, Take2 is under pressure as a company due to internal inefficiencies then they will reap the consequences. This is exactly what I was talking about in some previous posts: if people are unhappy with a publisher they should consider their game purchasing practices as the first step in protest, rather than ineffectually complaining on 3rd party forums.

However, I do feel sorry for Heffling who had his post regarding a game issue pretty much hijacked to turn the thread back towards a Take2 good/ Take2 bad debate.

As this thread has probably explored the said debate to death, would it not make more sense for those who wish to continue it to open an appropriate new thread?

That way this thread can return on topic to discussing game issues being addressed by the next patch.

Yes, they are indeed already suffering the consequences of their business practices, as their internal upheaval and sharply declining stock price will attest. I take your point concerning changing game purchase practices. But, Civ is the only game I play. And, as I believe you understand, my criticisms have not been directed toward the game itself (which I've stressed continues to give me many hours of enjoyment), but rather to Take2's business practices and what I believe to be unsupportable attempts at defending the same. That being said, since invective seems to have replaced any attempt at substance in defending Take2, I agree that there seems to be little point in continuing the discussion for now, whether in this thread or any other.

JFLNYC: Take a chill pill please. That Take2 isn't the epitome of a well-run company is no secret, but this never influenced Firaxis and the Civ franchise in any tangible way (they still produced a great game after all), and it's definitely off-topic in this thread. At this point you're just flinging mud. That you have to leave the topic so far to *find* some mud to fling should tell you something.

Better yet, after taking the chill pill, sit back for a minute and think about which constructive goal you want to achieve with your posts. Frankly, I don't see one at the moment.

If your post is a reflection of what you believe to be "constructive," I'll stick with the alternative.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

OK, back on topic.... will State Property have to pay 'Colony maintenance' after the patch?

Who thinks

It won't, and this is a good change
It won't, and this is a bad change
It will, and it should
It will, but it shouldn't

 

[Psyringe]

If your post is a reflection of what you believe to be "constructive," I'll stick with the alternative.

Well, that's exactly what I meant.

I raise a criticism against your behavior here. That is something you should be able to endure, after all you're the one who keeps insulting other people as "fanboys" just because they happen to have another opinion about a topic you got all worked up about.

However, you show no willingness whatsoever to deal with the criticism I raised. You neither demonstrated me that your argument was on-topic, nor have you actually delivered any kind of argument at all. Instead, you resort to a simple rhetorical retaliation that doesn't even make sense if you look at more closely. Just look at what's happening: Basically, I'm telling you "Let it go for a moment and come to your senses, *please*", and you're telling me "You're not constructive either". But dealing with criticism by pointing fingers at other people's alleged mistakes is not a mature way to handle criticism, now is it?

Actually, if (say) Alexman reacted to your criticism in the same way you just reacted to mine, you would bash him with no end. You would demand that he addresses the criticism itself instead of retaliating with rhetorics.

So please, for one minute, don't be concerned with the question whether *other people* are being constructive or not. Ask yourself whether *you* are being constructive and what *you* want to achieve (I'd still like an answer to that question). Then answer my criticism in the same way you would like Firaxis to react to your criticism.

When you can do that, in a calm, self-reflective, and non-aggressive manner, then continuing the discussion might make sense. Otherwise, I still recommend the chill pill.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ok so where's the patch?

 

[Psyringe]

OK, back on topic.... will State Property have to pay 'Colony maintenance' after the patch?

Hm, I haven't seen anything about this in the patch log, so I guess it remains unchanged?

Which reminds me that I don't really know whether State Property does pay colony maintenance at the moment (since I play on rather crowded maps, I didn't have colonies so far). So ... does it?