Patria Grande: Civilizations of the Americas

[Leugi]

 

[matiss00]

Yep, that's Cunhambebe, the great leader of the Tupi, who unified the many tribes into the Tamoyo Confederation.

Talking about it:

• UA: The Tamoyo Confederation: Allied City-States that are not military may gift military units. Gifting units to a City-State earns more influence. +1 Culture on Jungle Tiles.
• UU: Guaraní: Replacement for Composite Bowman. Generates food for the nearest city after killing an enemy inside your territory. Ignores terrain cost and may indirect fire.
• UI: Maloca: Unlocked at Calendar. May only be built on Jungle tiles with a resource, it doesn’t remove the Jungle. +3 Production . +1 Culture and +1 Food during WLTKD.
  

So, the biggest issue with Jungle tiles is usually the Production; Malocas are sort of like the hearth of the community; a gathering center for special celebrations (hence the WLTKD bonus) and also where the community gathers before hunting, working etc.

The idea is simple. A civ that can use jungles better than other civs; generating more food and culture, and not having downsides for it. Plus, the whole alliance thing allows you to focus on internal growth while you will still be well defended.

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@Matiss: Argentina is pretty fun as an opponent; before Renassaince its not important at all, but if it manages to survive; oh noes! hehehe. Mind you, it doesn't always survive.

1.If you combine its UA with sacred whatever, brazil will ragequit
2. UI + rationilsm + university = science overdrive
3. UU on classsical era with indirect fire - overkill, unless weaker and limited visibility
4. Thanks for secrets of war

 

[Leugi]

@mordcake: Oh right, removed that bit, thanks!

What troubled me of the Protecting thing, is that unless capped (so, with a max possible influence), its going to be madness; to be fairly honest, its easy to keep a Protected City-State; so we either cap it and make it more useless; or we have it OP and bad. On the other hand, exactly for how you said it, the Units part is nice; its almost like a reciprocal thing.

@matiss00: at post 823 there are some changes to the uniques, mind checking and giving your opinion?

 

[matiss00]

sorry, didnt saw you remove that bit of culture
otherwise, part 1 of my post was unnecesary (Brazil still gets the same overkill of culture)

 

[Krajzen]

Leugi, when that awesome civilization will be able to download?


Damn, I am modifying TSL huge map for myself and adding modded civs, now I don't know what civ would be the best one to put in the South America (apart from Inca, who really need rival in that area) - incoming Tupi, Tiwanaku, or maybe Muisca?...

 

[Leugi]

I'd say Tupi or Muisca for variety reasons. The Inca are after all settled right atop Tiwanaku's old territory ...

Indirect fire means, can launch ranged attacks through mountains or jungle.

And.................

TIWANAKU HAS BEEN UPDATED! Please tell me any issues you find in the update

 

[Leugi]

Ok... had to reupload because of funny issues. If you don't want to redownload everything simply download this rar file and extract it on Tiwanaku's mod folder.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81814981/Tiwanaku Update pack.rar

 

[Leugi]

Yep... there was an issue when I uploaded 3 hours ago; so just so you don't have to redownload everything just use the fix thing.

 

[Leugi]

Well, not intentional; but rather when I discovered I decided its not a big issue; and actually helps in balancing too.

Also, icons:

 

[matiss00]

Great job, but is it just or the leader in icon looks fat and squished or is it indended to be like that

 

[Leugi]

Another reason for the unfreeness of the shrines is that... I don't know how to give (FREE) buildings through lua (Do you know how Tomatekh? I call upon thee!)

Will see what to do with the hairdress thing hehe...

So... as an alternative for the Guaraní, what about this:

UU: Guaraní: Replacement for the Composite Archer, may indirect fire. When killing an enemy unit inside your territory it may add two turns for a "We Love the King Day". (When there's not one, it starts a 2 turn WLTKD)

This way is less direct than just granting food, because it still requires you to be producing food. And it still makes sense, because cannibalism was actually a ritual within the Tupi-Guaranies. It also provides nice synergy with the Maloca.

 

[Leugi]

Can you not just make a shrine building that has no maintenance cost, and give that instead?

Yeah, I suppose I'll have to do that... But that will be in the next version then; someone is helping me in improving all the pedia entries and I'll wait for that

 

[Tomatekh]

Another reason for the unfreeness of the shrines is that... I don't know how to give (FREE) buildings through lua (Do you know how Tomatekh? I call upon thee!)

You can't directly give or remove free buildings with lua

Whoward added the hook in his custom dll, if you ever wanted to use that.

One alternative would be to give a dummy builing which has the xml to give a free building in that city, and then add/remove the dummy building to add/remove the free building.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I see a little problem with the Guaraní in that... the Guaraní themselves weren't cannibalistic, they were actually one of the most peaceful tribes in South America, which is why they integrated so well into the Spanish Conquest without being slaughtered and such. So having them as the unit that gives the Cannibalistic bonus doesn't quite fit.
May I suggest changing the name to Uybassy Archer? The unit would look exactly the same, but at least now it'd fit with the ability. (Uybassy is Poison-arrow in Tupinambá if I recall correctly.)

 

[Homusubi]

It seems a bit odd to have two WLTKD-centric civs, given that Bolivia also centres around the mechanic.

 

[Leugi]

I'm actually considering the whole part of making the Avá (Guaraní) as a civ... I was getting some interesting ideas; mostly centered on the whole interesting and artistical interaction with Jesuits too. The whole thing of using Guarani, was because Guaraní actually means Warrior anyway.

So yeah just to leave that open, might as well change it to Uybassy.

Just to scribble the idea, this is almost how I would picture the Avá:

UA: The Land with no Evil: Civilian units that enter your territory have a chance of becoming yours. Chance increased depending on the cultural influence. Receive a free Great Work of Music or Art slot in cities with a Mission.
UU: Something (Probably Guaraní, given its meaning ): Most likely a Crossbowman replacement that doesn't require Machinery so comes earlier, has +1 Range but also is weaker.
UI: Mission: Built by Missionaries it consumes the missionary when built. May only be built on Jungle and not adjacently to another; +3 Culture; +1 Culture after the discovery of Accoustics.

So... I know Missions are actually a colonial thing; but the ones built with the help of the Guaraníes are also impressive; and also an interesting way for developing a special culture; it also generates interesting interaction. However, I might do this later on; I'm making too many UIs lately... (though really, its the best way to do so with most Native American, that or UU)

The UA will mostly get Prophets, Missionaries and Musicians; so it goes well with the theme too.

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I suppose the WLTKD thing is true, but its also a very unused mechanic in existant civs, so I consider its not an issue...

Anyway... I need some help finding good music for the Tupi... Specially since its possible I end making up the Guaraní; I had already some good Guaraní options chosen... So, if anyone finds something good enough, it will be nice.

Also... what would be a good capital for the Tupi?

 

[TPangolin]

You could go the Shoshone route and name them after tribes. Alternatively Niterói would be good.

I'll keep an eye out for Tupi music.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Personally in my mod I used Aracoara, which was the place where the Confederacy was created or something like that, I've got to ask a few questions to some people to confirm that info, but I believe it was that.
For the Guarani unit, you could do something creative and give them the "Yaba" unit, replacing the cannon. The Yaba is a type of wooden cannon they built during the war of the 7 reducciones. If you've seen the movie "The Mission" there appears one on the battle part.

 

[Leugi]

Ok... I'll admit the Yaba sounds interesting hehe; I wonder if there's any other document of that though...
EDIT: Quick research! So, yeah the Guaraní did use wooden cannons in those wars; made of Tacuarazú. They were not as effective and were not too wide though; so in fact its almost like having big muskets instead of an artillery in a way. Still... it would be fun; a non-artillery cannon replacement.

Any opinions on the UA and UI for the Avá/Guaraní?

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I like the idea of absorbing civilians, yeah. I know Missions aren't actually quite Guaraní, but whatever, it's what they are remembered the most for. The Mission plays really well with the UA of course, maybe too much, but I guess it depends on when it is unlocked, it's nothing more than a culture producer, so I guess it's good, if a little bit bland, compared with the other more creative unique buildings you've created before. So yeah, all in all I like the idea of this civ.

A good question would be, whos' the leader? Tiarajú? Apiaguaiki Tumpa? None of them feel really fitting, they are missing some larger-than-life element, dunno. I guess you can find a better candidate than me here. Not to mention the capital, there I really run into a blank.