Paying for mods

[thecrazyscot]

Game mods that is, not our lovely moderators.

There was some spirited discussion in the video games thread, and I felt that it was worth forking into its own discussion to avoid completely derailing the other thread.

Steam announcement:

With over 24,000 free mods available for Skyrim in the Steam Workshop, there will always be lots to do and explore for free. Now you can also find mods with a specified price, or mods where you can choose how much you wish to support the creators. The price is up to the mod creators.

Updated Steam Workshop T&Cs.

Steam is now allowing modders to charge for their mods, starting with Skyrim, with plans to expand it to more games (unknown whether the Civ games are on that list).

How does CFC feel about this? Would you pay for a mod? As a modder, would you charge for your work?

For myself, I'd never thought about charging for my mods because it was never even in the realm of possibility, so I haven't really formed an opinion on that. However, I could see myself paying for a mod as a way to support a particularly talented modder.

Thoughts?

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I've played a few mods that I would pay for. Requiem is a Skyrim mod that I would pay for. Long War is an XCOM mod that I would pay for. But I would only do so if it was on a donation system or Patreon type of deal, I would not support those mods if they were completely hidden behind a paywall.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I don't see myself ever buying a mod. Too many issues with software stability.

With regards to the new Steam deal, I think the 25% for mod makers and 75% going to Steam and Bethesda in this case is out of whack. Steam is getting more money than, say, Walmart does for holding an actual physical copy of a game, while modmakers are getting half the cut traditional sellers get. I also think this was poorly thought out, given that a bunch of people are just grabbing mods that aren't theirs from Nexus and putting them on Steam for sale. I also am worried about a lack of consumer protection. There will be times when, say, someone buys a mod for $10, a patch for the game is then released, and now that mod doesn't work. It could be days or weeks until it does. Or what happens if support is dropped entirely? There's a real possibility of making purchases of content here that are broken in a relatively short amount of time. It also puts downward pressure on downloading too many in the first place.

The hope, obviously, is that this will spur better mods and more people to make mods if they can now make a buck or two. But I feel like the implementation so far is really bad.

 

[Flying Pig]

Aren't there copyright issues with selling modded content? Can Steam say for (eg.) Firaxis that they don't mind people making money from Firaxis' work?

 

[thecrazyscot]

Aren't there copyright issues with selling modded content? Can Steam say for (eg.) Firaxis that they don't mind people making money from Firaxis' work?

Paid mods are only implemented through an agreement between the publisher and Valve, so this particular issue isn't a problem.

I do foresee issues abounding though with people using other modders' work without permission.

 

[Arakhor]

Given that the author of derived content shares the ownership with the owner of the overall copyright, unless the author was writing (or modding) to order (e.g. all those D&D books), it is my understanding that it would be illegal for the game owner to sell those mods without the modder's permission.

 

[BvBPL]

There are absolutely mods for which I would pay. FFH2 and its modmods come to the top of the list.

However, there are also a lot, I mean a whole lot, of mods that have a good idea but are ultimately poorly executed. Things like the CKII Game of Thrones and Crisis of Confederation are mods that have some good ideas, but fall down in some glaring manner. I would be pissed if I had to pay for those.

If I were to pay for a mod then I would want it done in a professional manner that is competently executed and works without being very buggy. Being largely finished with few obvious placeholders is also a huge plus.

Those high quality mods exist, but it is difficult for the consumer to tell at first what is worthy and what is not. While the gaming community does report on serious problems, the community playing mods tends to easily overlook faults that the broader consuming public would see as problematic.

 

[Antilogic]

Very, very, very few, and ultimately those mods have become proper games on their own so you pay for them anyway. BvBPL brings up a good point on the quality control: there needs to be some mechanism to insure the game mods work appropriately well, are bug-tested, and are kept up-to-date with main game patching that could cause them to fail.

I consider myself in the donor category, and will remain there for the time being.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Interesting. How do you guys feel about a mod which has a free version and (essentially) a premium version, which may have features the free version does not?

 

[Antilogic]

Interesting. How do you guys feel about a mod which has a free version and (essentially) a premium version, which may have features the free version does not?

That sounds like those garbage game apps on your phone where you pay2win.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Reason I ask is that quite a few of the Skyrim mods that are for sale still have their original, free versions up on Nexus. I don't actually see that as unreasonable - I actually see it as eminently reasonable if you don't remove the original free version (especially if you keep updating it!).

 

[BvBPL]

So, regarding Skyrim, what's the deal here?

Is a modder now bound to charge for the mod? That is, could a modder who wants to offer her mod for free do so even if the publisher wants to charge for it?

Are modders compensated for their work? How is this compensation determined?

I'm curious about the specifics.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Modders are not required to charge for their mod, it's an option that the modder has to select, and it has to be reviewed. A modder is perfectly free to have a free version and a paid version.

Modders keep 25% of the revenue (for Skyrim, will vary by game), with Steam taking 30% and Bethesda taking the rest.

Once a modder has earned $100 (so, $400 in total sales), the money is disbursed as Valve does not disburse funds until the amount has reached $100.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

In general: Depends on the mod. Many mods offer much more than the majority of DLC that is shilled by big publishers.
The way Steam is doing it with Skyrim, where the actual modder only gets 25% of the money ? No way I'm going to support this.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Some Twitter thoughts from Dean Hall (creator of DayZ):

TIL people have INSANE beliefs about just how much developers actually get in the publisher/developer model! Especially for licensed games!

RE: Paid modding. Any double digit percentage on REVENUE for a derivative work with supplied tools is an excellent deal commercially and far more than I expected/received for DayZ. People need to think about VALUE and not EMOTION when thinking of business

Yeah, 25% is a good deal if you look at how these kinds of things actually work. What's not a good deal is Valve's refusing to disburse funds until creator revenue has reached $100.

 

[Mise]

Yeah, there's loads of mods I'd pay for, some on this forum.

I wouldn't pay for a mod if I knew that 75% of it was going to game publishers or distributors. I would look for other ways of compensating the modder, if they so wished.

EDIT: Regarding the current state of publisher/developer revenue splits, I think that's insane too. I think in this day and age, when distributing a game costs hardly anything, we don't really need publishers any more. There are a lot of things we just don't need any more, but have hung around because our legal system kind of encourages it. This is one of them.

 

[warpus]

 

[Arakhor]

What's not a good deal is Valve's refusing to disburse funds until creator revenue has reached $100.

Or the refusal to actually refund your money if you return the mod. Store credit is not acceptable and most certainly constitutes a risk.

 

[thecrazyscot]

@ warpus

RE: refunds, yes, I definitely agree with that!

I truly would not mind a way to donate to some of the amazing modders on this forum, though. Really.

 

[Arakhor]

"I'm sorry, we don't do refunds" is illegal in the UK and probably in the rest of the EU. Valve couldn't care less though.