PC Zone preview from Myrddin on Apolyton

[arkammler]

Here is more info on Apolyton

Preview from PC Zone

Written by RTS players so there will be a slant but there seem to be a LOT of changes

Game length
Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII

Victory conditions
Spaceship, Conquest, Domination, Culture (with 3 cities with near perfect culture) and Diplomatic

Game speed
3 levels - quick, medium and epic

Start
Can start in a particular era

Tech tree
'more flexible, .. one tree not split into eras'

Graphics
3D with zoom
Much more detail on the landscape eg 'pastures, wineries, watermills and windmills all represented in detail, ... with smoke billowing from a factory'
Style - see previous screenshots

Interface
'familiar to anyone who has dabbled with RTS'

Religion
7 real world religions; including Christianity and Buddhism
No religion bonuses but 'associations with certain technologies'

Resources
31

Civs
19

Civ leaders
28 including Ghandi, Cyrus and Montezuma; traits are associated with leaders
Unclear whether you can choose the leader for your civ

City limit
None

Great people
5 categories - artist,tycoon,prophet,engineer, scientist
Probably triggered by city performance in each category
Benefits available 3 or 4 for each person, including culture boost, academies, multiple golden ages,free techs
Plato, Shakespeare,Newton, Einstein, Michalangelo

Combat
Gain experience points for winning battles, more if odds are against them
Each level increase allows choice of extra abilities eg using enemy roads, bonus attack in cities, moving faster in forests
'end-up with high-level units with specific abilities'

Governments
No set government styles
Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation

Health
Important factor alongside happiness and money

Moddability
Good, including AI

Multiplayer
LAN, Internet, PBEM and Persistent Turn-Based Servers
Currently Wednesday nights at Firaxis

Screenshots include
Japan and Persia
Spearman, Chariot, Scout, Galleys, Knights
Bronze Working
Units tagged by type eg spearman (melee unit)
spearman has 100% bonus against horse units

Edit - from another thread units have a single strength factor not seperate A/D values
Scout 1
Chariot 4
Spearman 4

 

[robertoross24]

very pleased with the govt info

 

[CurtSibling]

This is good stuff!

 

[Thunderfall]

Thanks for reposting the info, arkammler!

 

[Esckey]

Cooool


Only 2 problems. I like LONG games, I make all my little scenarios 1000turns long. And I always prefered the strength and defense numbers, to one single number.

Everything else is cool, especially the whole enemy Civs personalitys. That's gonna be sweet

 

[Arminius]

Gain experience points for winning battles, more if odds are against them

So when a spearman beats a tank by chance, the next time it's easier for that spearman to beat a tank!

 

[sir_schwick]

So when a spearman beats a tank by chance, the next time it's easier for that spearman to beat a tank!

how very true.

 

[Tomoyo]

Isn't that how RPGs work regarding exp...?

 

[777]

This sounds great. Seems that huge improvements are coming.

Combat
Gain experience points for winning battles, more if odds are against them
Each level increase allows choice of extra abilities eg using enemy roads, bonus attack in cities, moving faster in forests
'end-up with high-level units with specific abilities'

This reminds me Panzer General system, nifty!

 

[EMan]

certain units might get, for example, a bonus defending cities...

Straight from the horse's mouth.......Today!

Actually, the main significance from Soren's Post, is that the Firaxis Civ 4 Lead Developer, or somesuch Major-Title, is presumably reading and responding at CFC! That can't be bad!

It's nice to get a few "Official Crumbs" from time to time!

 

[sourboy]

Game length
Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII

And I constantly mod to try to up length of Civ3 - have they trashed half the tech tree?

Game speed
3 levels - quick, medium and epic

Game speed? What is this? Multi-player only?

Combat
Gain experience points for winning battles, more if odds are against them
Each level increase allows choice of extra abilities eg using enemy roads, bonus attack in cities, moving faster in forests
'end-up with high-level units with specific abilities'

As was said, improving the 'spearmans odds', no 'over-run' ability?, and 'extra abilites' sound like something from a RPG - wtf?

Is Civ4 trying to actually beat Civ3 for the all-time worst combat engine?

Governments
No set government styles
Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation

This will have to be done carefully & could work much better, though I still am disappointed already.

~~~~~~~~~

I'm not bashing the game already - as it's not even out yet, but rather pointing out some things that don't seem to fit. If all goes well, they will be as successful as culture was in Civ3. If all else fails, Civ4 is sitting in the bargain bin next to Moo3.

 

[Lillefix]

Actually on apolyton Soren himself just said that epic is actually longer than standard Civ3 and that normal is a bit shorter. Game speed apparently has to do with how quickly you build and probably how quickly you research.

RPG = Excellent

 

[sourboy]

That sounds better, as I will always be playing the epic anyway.

As for RPG, yes it's awesome - but not in Civ.

 

[ybbor]

overall soundsgood, when reading it nothing triggered alarm bells, but you guys raised good questions, with the bonuses amking a fluke turn into the standard, that does seem worriesom, but overall, i really like these updates.

 

[Darwin420]

Considering all we have are snippets, and no complete picture, with a nice likelihood of things changing between now and release, I'm really surprised that people are so negative about the game already. Or, so excited about particular features. Until I see a major FIRAXIS update this summer, I'm going to not sweat it, and probably end up counting how many contradictions exist in the preview information between now and release.

Happy hunting.

 

[arkammler]

Saw this down in their theard on this

Religions do not have bonuses but

-will impact diplomacy
-can build shrines,monastries and missionaries
-associated with certain technologies

Also can change religions

 

[Vael]

Until I see a major FIRAXIS update this summer, I'm going to not sweat it, and probably end up counting how many contradictions exist in the preview information between now and release.

This is why we don't get more information early.

 

[ainwood]

And I constantly mod to try to up length of Civ3 - have they trashed half the tech tree?

Maybe you can just research a bit faster? Maybe instead of it taking 15 - 50 turns for an early tech in C3C, it only takes 5-15 in C-IV.

As was said, improving the 'spearmans odds', no 'over-run' ability?, and 'extra abilites' sound like something from a RPG - wtf?

Is Civ4 trying to actually beat Civ3 for the all-time worst combat engine?

I don't know where you're getting that. I don't think the Civ3 method was that bad, but with the comments about firepower (an oft missed feature from CivII), it sounds like they're really trying to balance it carefully - no more spears winning against tanks.

Things like gaining abilities to use enemy roads sound very cool - especially if you could build barracks-type buildings that grant these abilities (either standard or modded), or (late) units can come with these. If you look deeper, it suggests that there are a LOT of moddable flags for unit attributes.

 

[EMan]

I thought combat in Civ 3 was in accordance with probability.....Not Real Life. So, although it's long odds, a Spearman could defeat a Tank...or even an Army of Tanks, theoretically. Let's face it, somebody wins the Lottery in Real Life too!

I suppose you could also change the Battle such that the outcome is 100% predictable (Like in Lost Admiral!), depending on offensive v defensive strengths etc.

However, are Firaxis saying, for Civ 4: "We'll use probabilities in Battle.....BUT, you can't have a Spearman defeat a Tank, or any such battle outcome that would never happen in Real Life according to these XYZ Rules Of Engagement"? (Rules that Firaxis defines)

Just asking for clarification here.

 

[ainwood]

For me, its pure speculation. But I think people were happier with the CivII model (in terms of probability of outcomes).