PCSG2: Lalibela's Eleven Churches

[lymond]

Oracle>CoL would be nice for Mr. Zara. We can use Conf to whip a temple in the Oracle city to run a priest to hasten the GP. This approach means we don't have to race through Mono and Writing - just Writing. Definitely tech Poly>PH though so we can pick up Mono a little later. (the tech not the disease)

 

[TheFragleader]

Sorry about the lack of input, I'll try to get my turnset tomorrow, Wendsday at the latest.

 

[nocho]

Thanks for letting me join, Cam.

Without thinking it over too much, I thought the idea was to Oracle Theo and then use the GP from Oracle for the shrine, which obviously will be very helpful, economically and to help autospreading our faith. If we bulb Theo with a GP we'll need another one for the shrine, possibly postponing a first GS for an academy. So ideally I'd still like to Oracle Theo, but I realize that without a commerce resource in the BFC it's a bit of a longshot. However, to our favour we have marble and the fact we have no industrious opponents so we should have some leeway. As compared to Oracleing CoL for Theo we need as extras masonry and monotheism. Likely even for a CoL sling we want masonry to hook up the marble, so the real difference is just researching mono. Is that really too much to ask for? (open question, to which I don't have a clear answer either )

In either case, we'll need to think of some defense for when the barbs come marching in. I hope we have copper close by, but if we don't we may also have to research AH in the hope for horses. I actually expect something to pop up in our BFC (metal/horse) as it is a bit resource poor. Of course if we have to go AH first as well, Oracle is getting less likely. Otoh, on most of our prospective 2nd city sites we seem to need pastures.

So we may even have to prioritise here, expansion or Oracle... I say that if we have copper still try, if not, we may have to abort all Oracle plans. Having gone for pottery might actually cost us the Oracle, I'm now thinking (don't take it as criticism though ). We could of course always just self research Theo.

To complicate roster-matters, I'm not available from next Friday to Monday, both included. So maybe better move me one or two spots down.

 

[vranasm]

I beg to differ a little actually, since I think the early pottery should allow us to quickly get Oracle techs. In previous sg (that we didn't finish) we got stuck with low bpt too soon.

I am used to build Oracle without connected marble (more chops), we can use some "magic" with worker overflow that Lymond experiences lately so I don't see the need for masonry+mono as tech priorities

actually I think next turnset should stop at finishing BW to see where we should go based on the land from the point on (yeah I know it's pretty short TS, but this early I think it's more important to wage situation in team then to let players their own will ;-))

 

[lymond]

While doing Oracle > CoL is always a nice play, I think we need to think of the variant and Nocho makes some good points. Oracle > Theo really plays to the variant and the shrine will help spread Christianity without wasting as many hammers on mishes. It also opens up an early Paper>Edu>Gunpowder route. I don't know really, it might be fun to just try something different. I've never used Oracle on Theo and rarely tech it, although I have bulbed it from time to time when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[vranasm]

well why not...seems like interesting gamble. But we should probably test it a little bit to see what we have to do to get there in time...

 

[nocho]

So if we go that way, tech path could be:
BW-(AH)-Myst-Poly-PH-Writing-Mason-Mono (we do have wheel already, right?)

AH if no copper and/or if we want it for city #2. I put writing after PH for the extra discount, but maybe research it right away for a library in the cap.

If we miss out on Oracle we can just go straight Theo from above path, I guess. I'd say that if we'd get an autospread of any religion meanwhile we build a temple right away to hire a priest. The sooner we have a GP for a shrine, the better...

What do we build in the cap after the worker? Fogbusters (warriors), then settler at size 5 or something? Do we chop that settler? And of course, where should next city be? Maybe the gold site, as it is towards the AI (likely) and as the gold may help out with research, or at least the city will pay for itself. When gold is hooked up I can even imagine just working that at stagnation for max commerce output until we know about Oracle, especially if we wait with AH.

 

[lymond]

Granted, if we don't reveal bronze we may need to think of another strat resource, but we may not have the luxury of teching AH if we are going for Oracle. If we can lay down some farms in first in cities with pasture resources, that might just have to do for a while. We might be able to just spawnbust with warriors for a while even without bronze, although our power will hurt for it.

I almost think we should go Writing next though. We absolutely need it regardless and it will only help speed the tech along. Don't want to waste those fast libraries.

Yep, I think we need to get out some more warriors. Chop a setter, maybe at size 4.

 

[Cam_H]

I've been kicking this around myself. At one point I was thinking that we should just forget Bronze Working and go straight at Priesthood to get going on The Oracle asap. I am very wary how the religions have dropped to tribes that don't start with Mysticism, and aren't convinced that we've got this WoW 'in the bag' by any stretch.

I've reconsidered that Bronze Working is worth pressing ahead with, as we'll need the chops and possibly a whip to give ourselves the best shot at The Oracle, and if we were to go Mysticism > Polytheism > Priesthood > Bronze Working, we'd have pretty well burned our window of opportunity to chop out The Oracle, and we'd still have Writing in front of us.

I can see where lymond is coming from, but I'd rather get Writing researched while building The Oracle, and getting out units as a priority rather than a Library, as Writing's too big of an investment (187) to justify the improved haul from a Library (45 once built to produce +4-ish / turn) right now. Then again ... I could be horribly wrong!

I'd press on with the Worker build > three turns into a Warrior (growth) > Settler. Look to the Gold resource as our next city depending upon reconnaissance findings.

 

[vranasm]

SGOTM 13 is on the table and we are not moving forward...

so we stalled?

 

[lymond]

No, we're just waiting on you, V

 

[nocho]

That'd be kind of sad, to stall it after 1 turnset... I guess TheFragLeader who was supposed to be up should be skipped and as I'm up next in the roster but already mentioned I couldn't play from tomorrow till Monday, that makes you UP, vranasm!

I can take it after you from Tuesday onwards, if not somebody else wants to go before (Brian, Norvin, Cam).

SGOTM13 hasn't started yet and with a 7-man roster a more casual SG should be able to coexist with a SGOTM anyway, imo.

edit: lymond can actually be much more concise than he previously alluded!

 

[vranasm]

interesting... didn't know that I am actually up , that means I should make some "got it" in the evening and some PPP

 

[Cam_H]

You seemingly are ... but almost by elimination!

@ TheFragleader ... if you could indicate what your situation is, that would be appreciated.

 

[Norvin_Green]

As to the religions, maybe they popped a tech from a hut?

 

[Brian Shanahan]

@nocho I can swap with you. I'm gone Wednesday, but free the weekend.

And during the last SGOTM I was in 3 others, ah the joys of unemployability.

 

[nocho]

@nocho I can swap with you. I'm gone Wednesday, but free the weekend.

Seems like a good idea.

For clarity, our roster now is:
lymond
TheFragleader - skipped
vranasm - up and mulling over a PPP (althoug for me go ahead and play before we all forget about this one alltogether...)
Brian Shanahan - on deck
nocho
Norvin_Green
Cam_H

And during the last SGOTM I was in 3 others, ah the joys of unemployability.

All crises have their positive sides.

 

[vranasm]

I threw a look at the save.
Plan is to play until BW is finished.

north east warrior will scout through the jungle in the direction of gold but from north side.
scout will be pulled to the north on the west side

worker 1 will move to the western flood plain and start cottage (will build 1T of road SW of corn probably if I don't forget).
worker 2 after finish will road in the direction for gold city. Even if I would like to settle city 2 to the west (pigs+FP's) we get there trade route from culture borders and river, so better to preroad to north.

after worker 2 I start settler, we settle then in next turnset where we should see where is copper.

a little bit undecided on city micro. We could get worker 2 in 4T but delays BW to 10t, or let it as is getting BW 9T and worker 5T.

if i let the worker in 4T (and later BW) I could preroad to the future city spot before finishing BW and workers then could chop out the settler.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

I'd say the earlier worker beats the earlier BW, simply for the fact that it is extra man power.

 

[nocho]

Not seeing the save, but I think it's better to grow our city first to size 4 or even 5 before starting the settler, building fogbusting warriors meanwhile. Especially as we don't seem to have AIs closeby and therefore don't need to race to the next spot.

I'd say the earlier worker beats the earlier BW, simply for the fact that it is extra man power.

I would say the opposite if we want to have a shot at the oracle. Our commerce is most crucial. I guess speeding up prod also means losing turns working and thus growing a cottage.