Peaceful Defenders

[uberfish]

Swallowing your pride and paying up tribute demands helps a lot.

If you don't want a war, try and stay in the same religion as the more psychotic leaders. Once you have decent relations, they readily accept bribes to attack other civs which will keep them busy and permanently taint their relations with the victim civ.

Check the diplomacy screen of aggressive leaders, under the declare war section if they have "enough on their hands" it means they are planning an invasion of someone (either you or another AI)

Finally, if you have a neighbour that you can't get along with and expect to be fighting eventually, either attacking them first when you have a military tech edge or bribing someone else to attack them is the best form of defence.

 

[Arnesson]

i'm really careful with diplomacy, far more than sane people are, i admit it. but it helps me. now granted i need the help since i am like the world's worst warmonger *giggle*. i'm not good at early wars and i have a broad definition of early. so i need all the help i can get. probably most people don't need to rely on diplomacy even 1/10th as much as i do, and i know that some people hate to have to deal with it, they'd just rather bash heads. i get a kick out of it. part of the beauty of civ4, so many different ways to play! but maybe these thoughts will help somebody out in some future game.

[/spoiler]

Here's a question for you then. Vanilla, Prince, Normal Size, Continents. I shared my side with Catherine, Julius and Victoria. On the other continent were Frederick, Asoka and Cyrus. As at year 2000, I have eliminated JC and Cathy, while Cyrus has fallen to the other two. I am behind on tech, but leading by about 300 points on the table. All four are "Friendly" towards me. Frederick completes the UN, and I eventually lose when he takes a diplomatic victory. All four of us are fairly close on the power graph, although he is on top. I don't have anything worthwhile to use for bribery.

How do I counter this?

 

[KMadCandy]

All four are "Friendly" towards me. Frederick completes the UN, and I eventually lose when he takes a diplomatic victory. All four of us are fairly close on the power graph, although he is on top. I don't have anything worthwhile to use for bribery.

How do I counter this?

yeah the UN is where it's trickiest. that's the only place (that i know of) where the net +/- modifier is what matters, not simply the category of "Friendly" or "Furious" etc. some of what i've picked up is in this thread, you might find it interesting. a lot i've picked up here and there and through my own games, so that's really the only specific link i can give and it's far from complete as far as how best to manipulate it.

some things i try sometimes, when wars to change populations and vote numbers aren't what i desire. spoilered for space since it may be of interest only to you.

Spoiler :

as you'll see in the link, to get them to vote for you for diplomatic victory, they need to be net +8 towards you (including invisible modifiers) and that number needs to be higher than their total (including invisible) with the opponent.

if some voters are on your side already, it can make a difference to trade or gift them health/happy resources (even when you lack techs to gift) to boost their population/votes. also be sure not to trade your opponent or anybody on his side happy/health resources that are making his population bigger = more votes. in my experience health is a bigger issue for the AI than happiness is at that stage of the game. if you have the military power and/or are confident enough that he won't declare war/you could handle a DoW if you fail at sabotage, send spies to sabotage fred's corn and stuff. -2 health in every big city really can hurt them when the cities are already at -8 health. costs i think 200g gold and it's at least a little hit to him everywhere. he'll farm it again but you'll have 200g again. be a pest . it's fun and often i have enough leeway with Fred that a few -your spy was caught isn't a risk even if i'm light on power.

one DP is free--it won't earn you a negative modifier with the other civs. so if you can get one of the friendlies that's voting for fred to sign a DP with you, and if you have enough time for that +DP proves we are close friends to build up, that can be the difference in his vote. signing 2 or 3 does earn you a -1 with other others tho, only the first one is "free" politically.

also look at what you can do to make any of them like him less, whether or not it makes them like you more, as long as it doesn't make them like you less. for example favorite civics. if fred is using one that's not his favorite (US is), that is the favorite of someone who's voting for him, try to bribe fred out of it. that way he loses the +wise civics with that voter. you have to change out to have the option to bribe them to something else, but when you switch back soon, the +s you built over time with the voter are still there. doesn't always work and sometimes isn't a possibility, like say Free Market has been voted in by UN. that's mansa's favorite civic so both candidates will get the +wise civics with him by default.

 

[laughingvulcan]

I've often remained with a much smaller army than my AI opponents, and have had pretty good luck with it. (I suppose I should say that I've been playing Monarch level on Vanilla Civ IV.)

Until Galleons, I only worry about keeping my cities well stocked with military units near the border of my biggest concerns -- meaning unfriendly neighbors, or friendly, but untrustworthy sorts like Monti. A single warrior or archer is plenty within the center of your empire, or on icy outskirts.

Just keep your army updated. Six units defending a border city aren't very good if you're way behind in technology. But with a smaller military you should have a better infrastructure of libraries and markets and the like.

In later years the railroad makes beating off invasions relatively easy.

There is only the tactfully difficult area where other civs may have cavalry, and you haven't developed railroads yet. I often find I focus on my military more at this time. Also -- and you may have already guessed this -- I have had some unfortunate experiences with barbarians in the early game. Sometimes, you know, one warrior unit is NOT enough to watch a city. The game does give you some warning through the alert system when an enemy unit is starting to approach one of your cities, so I would lastly just encourage you to make sure you pay attention to those every turn, not just once in a while.

Good luck.

 

[KMadCandy]

I have found that keeping an ai sweet with gifts, same religion, favourite civic, giving in to extortion goes a long way. Also keep an eye on who is about, as you said kill monty if he's nearby, but catherine is the worst. I always keep my main forces in border cities.

i didn't key in on this the first time. the border city thing is a good idea.

oddball tip of the day: if you have bored workers (when you're waiting around for RR/bio/state property for example), it can be really useful to do useless stuff! improve the tiles that are not in your city crosses but that are in the "buffer zone" between your culture borders and your cities. the AI has this "must kill the perman ... oooooh shiny, time to pillage" tendency, which can buy me time to shift units to where i need them, make/draft/whip more, you name it. especially in that "we're waiting to learn how to make railroads" stage when your troops still move slowly.

this has saved my candybutt in more than one OCC. and there i can't even move in back-ups from other cities obviously. but it extends the time you have to react between that terrifying (for me at least) "OMG they are coming at me! " turn and the turn when they reach the improvements that i do care about and they're banging at the city walls. pre-mined and roaded hills that later turn out to have coal or aluminum on them is always good too! they earn a little gold from the pillaging, but for me the time i earn is far more valuable in the big picture.

 

[uberfish]

Here's a question for you then. Vanilla, Prince, Normal Size, Continents. I shared my side with Catherine, Julius and Victoria. On the other continent were Frederick, Asoka and Cyrus. As at year 2000, I have eliminated JC and Cathy, while Cyrus has fallen to the other two. I am behind on tech, but leading by about 300 points on the table. All four are "Friendly" towards me. Frederick completes the UN, and I eventually lose when he takes a diplomatic victory. All four of us are fairly close on the power graph, although he is on top. I don't have anything worthwhile to use for bribery.

How do I counter this?

If an AI got voted secretary general by a large margin, you may be in trouble. Check the diplomatic relations screen to see why they like Fred more than you. You may be able to counter this by getting the AI to switch civics to remove a favoured civic bonus. Consider declaring war on Cyrus yourself to get the shared military struggle bonuses.

 

[EmperorFool]

Consider declaring war on Cyrus yourself to get the shared military struggle bonuses.

That's a great tactic that I learned a while ago from reading the ALCs: just because you're at war, doesn't mean you have to fight, but it can earn you points with others.

I can't remember if it was mentioned above, but it's a good idea to bribe your neighbors (i.e. "friends") into attacking another civ before you go to war. It doesn't always have to be the civ you're attacking.

• You may want them to help you attack your target. And you get diplomacy points with them.
• You may want them to stay out of "your" war. ("Hey, I actually wanted to keep that city!" and "Stop pillaging my future land! Those are towns! Stop!")
• But you definitely don't want them invading you while your back is turned.

Getting the AI civs to fight each other also keeps them from becoming too buddy-buddy.

 

[Arnesson]

yeah the UN is where it's trickiest. that's the only place (that i know of) where the net +/- modifier is what matters, not simply the category of "Friendly" or "Furious" etc. some of what i've picked up is in this thread, you might find it interesting. a lot i've picked up here and there and through my own games, so that's really the only specific link i can give and it's far from complete as far as how best to manipulate it.
.[/spoiler]

That was very useful KMC. I went back to an earlier save (1900) and re-played the game. This time I changed my research strategy, picked up Medicine, and then employed it to talk Asoka into a Defensive Pact. That provided the swing votes necessary to prevent Freddy from his Diplomatic victory. With that in the bag, I focussed on building improvements rather than troops and ended up with a solid 6000+ point Time Victory. Not huge I know, but my third win and best ever score at Prince level.

 

[KMadCandy]

Not huge I know, but my third win and best ever score at Prince level.

that is huge! you learned some things, got a win, and your best ever score . plus i was helpful, so i get bonus score points in my personal scoring system . yay!!! and grats!

 

[Arnesson]

Swallowing your pride and paying up tribute demands helps a lot.

If you don't want a war, try and stay in the same religion as the more psychotic leaders. Once you have decent relations, they readily accept bribes to attack other civs which will keep them busy and permanently taint their relations with the victim civ.

Check the diplomacy screen of aggressive leaders, under the declare war section if they have "enough on their hands" it means they are planning an invasion of someone (either you or another AI)

Finally, if you have a neighbour that you can't get along with and expect to be fighting eventually, either attacking them first when you have a military tech edge or bribing someone else to attack them is the best form of defence.

All excellent points Fish. Playing Contimnents makes that easier. Despite the fact that I started with Mining (playing Mao) I successfully researched and got Hinduism instead of chasing BW as I normally would. As the only game in town, the other three factions soon adopted it (although Cathy subsequently lightbulbed Taoism and switched). By that time however, I had enough troops to defend and she went after Victoria first. Weakened by that conflict, she was easy pickings for me later on.

I was checking the Diplomatic screen regularly once Freddy built the UN and the Secretary's position. But I could see no reason (other than the size of his armies) as to why they liked him better. Relations between the 4 of us were all "Friendly". As you will see in my subsequent post, the replay did manage to pull this one out (for a Time victory).

 

[Arnesson]

I've often remained with a much smaller army than my AI opponents, and have had pretty good luck with it. (I suppose I should say that I've been playing Monarch level on Vanilla Civ IV.)

Until Galleons, I only worry about keeping my cities well stocked with military units near the border of my biggest concerns -- meaning unfriendly neighbors, or friendly, but untrustworthy sorts like Monti. A single warrior or archer is plenty within the center of your empire, or on icy outskirts.

Just keep your army updated. Six units defending a border city aren't very good if you're way behind in technology. But with a smaller military you should have a better infrastructure of libraries and markets and the like.

In later years the railroad makes beating off invasions relatively easy.

There is only the tactfully difficult area where other civs may have cavalry, and you haven't developed railroads yet. I often find I focus on my military more at this time. Also -- and you may have already guessed this -- I have had some unfortunate experiences with barbarians in the early game. Sometimes, you know, one warrior unit is NOT enough to watch a city. The game does give you some warning through the alert system when an enemy unit is starting to approach one of your cities, so I would lastly just encourage you to make sure you pay attention to those every turn, not just once in a while.

Good luck.

I typically play that way as well (larger garrisons in border towns) although I have discovered that, at Prince level, you HAVE to take out at least one, usually two AI's to win. Size seems to matter, big time, at the higher levels. The AI's always seem to REX, leaving you little room to build your own towns beyond 3 or 4. As for Barbarians, I try to have a Chariot in every city to help the Warrior defend in the early game. They will win every time against Warriors, and sometimes even take out Axemen one-on-one.