Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread

[Xen]

A)they are on the map, and I dont like having empty spaces

B)Athens got huge numbers of mercenaries from italy, including Eturia for the seig of Syracuse

C)It would be fun

D)I read that Cyrene backed SParta politically in the war, and IIRC may have given a few troops to aid Syracuse

E)the delin Legue extended into the BLack sea, with cities as far away as Trapesus, and Odessa joining in

 

[Xen]

oh yes, and how go those cataphracts, and Athenian marines

 

[Amenhotep7]

No Egypt on this map...And ur right...Maybe a few civs in Italy just as a space-filler, and Carthaginian cities in Sicily, but other than that, Why would we really need Italy, Xen? Wait! Never mind...The Etruscans helped to a small extent at the battle of Syracuse...So other than that, perhaps no Black Sea cities besides Byzantium...Actually, if the Greeks called it something different, that'd probably be best...

Edit: Now I see ur point, Xen...Go ahead...
P.S. How big would the roman Republic be at this time? Should we give them the Early Republic Legionary for a UU?

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by Xen
A)they are on the map, and I dont like having empty spaces

B)Athens got huge numbers of mercenaries from italy, including Eturia for the seig of Syracuse

C)It would be fun

D)I read that Cyrene backed SParta politically in the war, and IIRC may have given a few troops to aid Syracuse

E)the delin Legue extended into the BLack sea, with cities as far away as Trapesus, and Odessa joining in

Good answers.

A) ....they were also there 2,500 years ago, but were not directly involved.
B) Italian troops played a minor role in the seige of Syracuse (the Etruscans sent just three 50-oared galleys....not even large enough to be called Biremes). Is it worth distorting the whole scenario by including several civs in Italy, just for a handful of units?
C) "It would be fun". So would including Egypt/Spain/Gaul....where is the limit?
D) & E) ....but no military action occured in these regions.

(As for units....I'm hoping to post some tomorrow. )

Addition question:-
Can I assume that no civs will be allowed settlers in the scenario?
(I can't think of a single city founded in this period)

 

[Amenhotep7]

SOME UNITS TOMORROW?! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!![dance][dance][dance]
Kryten makes good points too...How's about this:
Include Etruscans, some Greek cities on Italian Peninusula, and Rome, just for space fillers.
How's about No Cyrene? On this map, Cyrene gets about 7 squares of plains/desert!
Kryten- No Egpypt/Spain/Gaul...The map doesn't extend that far...
There should be maybe be one more city close to Byzantium for support, since Byzantium is a victory point location...

 

[Xen]

I'll have to check my dated, but I think the peloponesian war is pre-refoprms, in other words Romes armies still organised into legions, but the troops themselves were Hoplite type troops- i plan to use the greek swoards man, found here, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...e=20&display=&highlight=utahjazz&pagenumber=1

 

[Amenhotep7]

Hmm....Very nice...Of course, the sword was part of the regular hoplite armor, but it's a UU, so go ahead...

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Kryten


Good answers.

A) ....they were also there 2,500 years ago, but were not directly involved.
B) Italian troops played a minor role in the seige of Syracuse (the Etruscans sent just three 50-oared galleys....not even large enough to be called Biremes). Is it worth distorting the whole scenario by including several civs in Italy, just for a handful of units?
C) "It would be fun". So would including Egypt/Spain/Gaul....where is the limit?
D) & E) ....but no military action occured in these regions.

(As for units....I'm hoping to post some tomorrow. )

Addition question:-
Can I assume that no civs will be allowed settlers in the scenario?
(I can't think of a single city founded in this period)

well...there was Thurii, a colony founded not just by Athens, but by Pericles,a nd then set fourth as a "Pan-Hellenic" colony to drum up co-operation amoung the bity states.

as for the limit of civs- well, in my opinion, the only limit is what is represented on the map, and by how many civs we can have- if Egypt was on the map, i would argue that it to be portrayed
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here is the basic line- since I am the one who is revising the cities, its MY perogitive to do more work then what is needed to add other powers during the time to the map, and extend the action of this scenario to possibilities that didnt happen- the cenario will still be all about Athens and Sparta, but nor there are some new possibilites added into the mix- what if Athens had persued a imperialist vision over southern Italy? or the Cyrenicans plotting to expand into mainland greece- or Carthage moving on to take them all on?

 

[Amenhotep7]

Kryten-
yes, settlers are blocked...

 

[Amenhotep7]

Xen-
I am intrigued, but if u were to do that, save it as a seperate file....Then after the main scenario is done without your alternate history, we'll work on that. For now, follow history...

 

[Kryten]

Rome threw off their Etruscan overlords in 510 BC, and then overcame their Latin allies in the first Latin War of 498 to 493 BC, but had not yet captured their first Etruscan city (Veii, as Xen will confirm ), which was done after a 10 year war from 406 to 396 BC.
So Roman territory at this time would be about half the size of Sicilly, or about the same as that of Syracuse.

And Xen is right: the Roman army at this time copied that of the Etruscans, who copied the Greeks, so both were Hoplite armies.
It was after the sacking of Rome by the Gauls in 387 BC that they reformed their army into 'maniples' of 'legionaries'.
(I know, I know....you now want "Etruscan Hoplites" and early "Roman Hoplites"as well! )

Other peoples of southern Italy at this time were the Samnites, the Oscans, the Lucanians, and the Bruttians, all of whom fought in 'peltast' fashion, not including the Greek colonies along the southern coast.

(But I thought this was a scenario about the Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta, not the rise of Rome.... )

 

[Xen]

its NOT an alternate history it is a FULL history!

p.s- thanks for getting the units here so fast Kryten ;goodjob:, and sorry if I seem a bit over the edge on all this map stuff...

 

[Amenhotep7]

Umm...But u said urself, Xen, that it's stuff that didn't happen...So wouldn't this be an alternate history?

 

[Xen]

so would Athens winning the peloponesian war, but that woul dbe possible if the scenario was made with just the greeks

P.S- was think italic hoplite would be a good name

 

[Amenhotep7]

Yeah, guess ur right...Go ahead with
a)Athens having Imperialistic views for southern Italy
and
b)Cyrene wanting to expand into mainland Greece

 

[Xen]

well, I dont belive Cyrene wanted too (though if it had a chance I bet they would have tried) but if you play as those civs, then why not?

 

[Amenhotep7]

Hmmm....I'd say they would probably want africa more, so they wouldn't have to go against the Spartans and Athenians, so no on Cyrene having imperialist views for mainland greece...

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by Xen
p.s- thanks for getting the units here so fast Kryten ;goodjob:, and sorry if I seem a bit over the edge on all this map stuff...

No problem matey.
(By the way, by "hoping to post some tomorrow", I meant the Roman Cataphract! Still, I'll stay up all night and see if I can knock-up some Hoplite previews....I'll get some sleep at Christmas! )

As for 'alternative history' and the map.....as I said before, I too like what-if situations.
But the problem with Civ3 is; IF becomes WILL.
IF Etruria, Rome, Cyrene, etc are on the map, then they WILL, in just about every game, become involved.
(You know as well as I do what the AI is like! )

 

[Yoda Power]

Hey good to hear you are actually still making those units Kryten

And good luck with the scenario

 

[Amenhotep7]

Thnx, Yoda! Yeah, ur right, Kryten...IF shall become WILL...But of course, this is unavoidable in ANY scenario, so go ahead with Athens' imperialism, Xen.