Petition to add Poland

[Evie]

Poland (or, more accuratley, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) was one of the largest nations in Europe for much of the XVth through XVIIIth century, covering territories from the Baltic to the Black Sea, with much of present-day Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic States under its control. It was the key player in defeating the last large-scale Ottoman attempt to break into Europe, and was more often controlling events in Moscow than the other way around.

Which isn't to say that it should have been one of the initial 18 civs - these were very well picked, with diversity being given proper regard.

But now, with expansions, Poland should definitely be given due consideration. I'd say it, along with Netherlands, Austria and Portugal, is one of the four really missing civilizations right now.

 

[Chode]

I'm American and I think Poland would be an important Civ to add. However, there are more immediate Civs which are in dire need of representation, like the Byzantines or Babylonians.

 

[Truronian]

Bah! It is quite obvious, isnt it? I guess you and all other non-Polish Civ-gamers want to play as their mother countries just because they hate them much.

Nah, I play as the Celts because their town music/colour is cool.

 

[Wodan]

Wasn't partible inheritance as much a factor to "hold Poland back" from being recognized by other cultures? Exactly the same as done by Charlemagne but not as well known. Nevertheless, it had a similar effect... dividing the country down into petty dukedoms.

Also, inviting the Germans in, who then formed Prussia (which bit Poland in the butt big time, a couple of hundred years later).

Wodan

 

[balthamael]

So, English think they are most important nation in the world, Americans that they are, Polish that ... and so on. Europeans hardly notice rest of the world, and in particular Western Europeans were barely conscious that anything exists in the east of Oder river till the World War II.

The English (British) and America have both been the foremost power in the world. That being the entire world, not the Baltic.

 

[kristopherb]

So, English think they are most important nation in the world, Americans that they are, Polish that ... and so on. Europeans hardly notice rest of the world, and in particular Western Europeans were barely conscious that anything exists in the east of Oder river till the World War II.

the english was the important country in the world it controled the seas which is 7/10 of the earths surface.without meanching the land it owned.its not us which lost controlits the daft armericanwoodrow wilson

 

[Chode]

the english was the important country in the world it controled the seas which is 7/10 of the earths surface.without meanching the land it owned.its not us which lost controlits the daft armericanwoodrow wilson

stop posting

 

[Eskel]

the english was the important country in the world it controled the seas which is 7/10 of the earths surface.without meanching the land it owned.its not us which lost controlits the daft armericanwoodrow wilson

Do I question this? I am deeply convinced that in some period it was most important nation in the world. But not for ever - there were times in past it was almost unimportant, in present surely it is not number 1, and nobody knows how it will look like in future. And it doesnt change the fact the rest of the world has its own problems.

120 mlns British and 300 mlns of Americans are important part of the world, but are not the whole world. Please notice, that besides you, there lives over 5500 mlns other ppl on Earth.
Funny, that your reaction clearly shows that I am right.

BTW: in the poll which 5 civs should alwys be in civ, England was originally one of my choices (though in the end I have chosen Romans as precedessors of whole European Civ).
I had never mentioned, that I want England or America excluded from Civ4, nor proposed to put Poland before those civs. I just noticed, that we could catch up in 2nd exp pack, and this is place in the line Polish may deserve.

That basicaly is the main problem. Poland has never been recognised as a big power and never had political influence on others like England/America/France/Russia/Germany does

You are right that Poland is not recognized as it has ever been a big power, but not right it wasnt.
There were times in XIV to XVII cnt Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was more powerful than Russia or Germany, but has lost in this competition. I cant deny this, and thats why Poland is not recognized as important country. But there are a lot of civs that didnt stand the test of time, yet still are included in game. You cannot look on the civilization only from point of view of current politics.

 

[kristopherb]

no all im saying is that if woodrow wilson didnt push his idea of selfdetrimation
i believe that the world will be a happier place.why less wars between counties,also if it wasn't for the dark ages we whould be colonisiding space
i believe one large country whould be abetter place.
rant over

ot
sorry i think poland is to small country to add in sure it was a major part of history.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I'm American and I think Poland would be an important Civ to add. However, there are more immediate Civs which are in dire need of representation, like the Byzantines or Babylonians.

I agree. I actually think its a possiblity and could see Firaxis doing this as this is a very influential civ. I just think before they do that I'd like to see a Khmer or southeast asian civ, babylon, byzantines,etc. These civs need to be added first before we think of others.

 

[shiloh22]

Gosh i dont even think poland was in like any wars... well if they were any they weren't major wars

 

[deanjack]

Gosh i dont even think poland was in like any wars... well if they were any they weren't major wars

Poland was in world war 2. When Germany invaded that was when the U.K came into the war.

 

[Charles 22]

Has Poland EVER been in a civ game (without mods)? I doubt it and if that is so, that's more than enough reason to include them.

 

[Chode]

Has Poland EVER been in a civ game (without mods)? I doubt it and if that is so, that's more than enough reason to include them.

By that logic then Civ5 must have Siam, Peru, and Bhutan.

 

[Evie]

Amusingly enough, one of these can have a good case made for it, and another arguably is partly in already (though their predecessor)

 

[ppete111]

has every1 forgotten the deluge. during the mid 1600's sweden and russia occupied poland and during this time poland lost roughly 1/3 of its population which if u use a ratio is proportionately higher losses than that of WWII. Before that they were a european power.

Civ = Poland
Leaders = Bolesław I the Brave (Spiritual,aggressive or expansive),Henryk II Pobożny(organized,protective)
Great Artist = mikolaj gomulka
Great General = Tadeusz Kościuszko
unique unit = Highland Brigade (somebody else come up with the stats on this one)and before any1 says anything - its actually the polish independant highland brigade - not the scottish version or the british unit.
National wonder = University of Szczecin - add 50% beekers to city built in.
unique building = Krasicki Palace (replaces castle - castle abilities + new units recieve medic 1)

im not polish or anything, but we all know there are bunches of civs that could be added, why not poland? anyone else got a petition for their favorite left out civ.

 

[Willowmound]

Gosh i dont even think poland was in like any wars... well if they were any they weren't major wars

In 1683, Polish King Jan Sobieski broke the Turks at Vienna, ending the centuries-long conflict between the Ottoman empire and the West.

Had the Poles not come to save the day, Europe (or at least a very big chunk of it) might well have been Muslim today.

Not only was Poland 'in like any wars', they were crucial in shaping (or keeping from being bent out of shape) the Europe we have today.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

In 1683, Polish King Jan Sobieski broke the Turks at Vienna, ending the centuries-long conflict between the Ottoman empire and the West.

Had the Poles not come to save the day, Europe (or at least a very big chunk of it) might well have been Muslim today.

Not only was Poland 'in like any wars', they were crucial in shaping (or keeping from being bent out of shape) the Europe we have today.

If the Turks hadn't been stopped outside Vienna, they would have been stopped somewhere else. Poland's influence on European history, let alone world history, has been insignificant. It has spent most of its existence being colonized or occupied by other countries. Not for nothing is there a joke that one of the shortest books in the world would be "The Who's Who of Famous Poles". Add to that that there are many other cultures that are more qualified to be in Civ. Examples are Babylon, the Iroquois, the Khmer, Brazil, Portugal, the Netherlands, the Maya, the Hittites, Ethiopia, Mitanni (the Hurrites) and Austria.

 

[ppete111]

...there are many other cultures that are more qualified to be in Civ. Examples are... and Austria.

I could be wrong,but isn't dracula from austria...he could be financial and bloodthirsty(new units gain medic 1,combat 1,flanking 1,drill 1,city raider 1, and the ability to fly)

come on now people, no one has given any good reason why poland shouldn't be added, but once again, to repeat myself, we all know there are a lot of civs that could be added,but don't down the poles just because u don't know their history.

 

[Willowmound]

If the Turks hadn't been stopped outside Vienna, they would have been stopped somewhere else.

Vienna lies in a geographical bottleneck, between hills. It really was the south-eastern gate to Europe. Stopping the Turks at Vienna was crucial -- for the Turks, taking Vienna was crucial for the exact same reason.

Add to that that there are many other cultures that are more qualified to be in Civ.

Agreed. That doesn't however change the importance of what happened at Vienna, in 1529 and again in 1683. (The Austrians, of course, were the biggest heroes.)