PH03: Happy Little Wonderland

Timmy won't be able to pick this up, Pholk. He does some sort of law school thing on weekends that, I think, really means he prefers his girlfriend to us. You know how those germans get. Too shy to tell you that they're gettin' some, bugger the **** off.

You might want to change up the rotation.
 
you're right, of course, i plum forgot:

Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >
 
Got it, but it's late. Will play sometime tomorrow, probably evening.

In the meantime, if anyone has a link to the Warlords-compatible autologger, please let me know. I didn't find it when I looked earlier, and I've run most of my SP games under the HOF mod (to get the advisors, etc. w/o having to go do the Python surgery myself). If not, no prob...I'll just take notes on paper to transcribe later. And if the vanilla version works in Warlords, too...well, just slap me and tell me I'm lazy.

Now...let's go see if I can avoid screwing this up. ;) Please continue to discuss next steps. I'll check in with the thread before I play.
 
i don't think we should bother with Stonehenge as we have lots of Calendar resources. Something else could be the wonder of our 2nd city ~ there's no rule that it has to be built ASAP, so we have time to plan.

Perhaps a quick run through Pottery on the way to Writing, Alphabet and Code of Laws. Or should we try to use the Oracle sling to grab CoL and the GP to get Theology?? what say you'se guys?
 
yes, i'd like to grab 3 religions for ourselves if we could so that we aren't dependent on the outside world for victory.
 
Ok...I had a chance to start my set earlier than expected, but I haven't finished yet. I've played 7.5 turns, and I have to put it aside until tonight (kids will wake up soon). It's good timing, though, because I could use input on a couple of things before I finish my 15. I'll be playing again in...about 6-7 hours from this post.

Turns so far to follow in next post. Teaser: the Goody Hut Gods have been kind. :cool:
 
Inherited Turn - 3200 BC
Not much to check on. Everything looks good. Press Enter.

Turn 1 - 3160 BC
Moscow grows to size 2. Leave the governor's tile assignment (2/1/0 riverside forest) to build warriors faster. I could MM to the FP and grow in 4 turns rather than 6, and pick up a commerce...but I want to have a couple of warriors before we build the settler, and with this setup I should be able to finish the second Warrior about the time we grow to size 3.

Also, since we get a bonus to hammers for building settlers, but not to food, I send the worker to the hill for a mine. Again, ought to be able to finish it right around the time I start the settler.

Oh..and that Goody Hut that Pholk was headed toward? Turns out the natives knew a thing or two that we didn't.


Turn 2 - 3120 BC
Worker starts a mine - due in 4 turns. Just in time for our settler.
Send the scout NE to poke around. The fog S of Moscow will get busted in 3 turns when our borders pop again.

Turn 3 - 3080 BC
'Sploring NE. Yawn.

Turn 4 - 3040 BC
BW is in.



And we have copper nearby, but not in the BFC:



Still looks like someplace up north looks good for our second city. Can't get copper, gold and cows in one BFC, so we'll have to plan something. Have a few turns to think about it, though, so wait and see. Scout should check the area around the copper, especially the fog to the east.

Start on Masonry, due in 9.

Warrior finishes at Moscow, start another (due in 5). Settler now would take 13, but if we grow to size 3 first (3 turns), we can get it to about 8-9. And we'll want a second warrior for an escort anyway. Animals have started to appear (there's a wolf wandering S of Moscow).

Send the Warrior N to bust fog towards the copper. Second one will stay home.

For those who were looking at the big map closely, yes, there was another Goody Hut next to our Scout. And he's headed north anyway, so it's on the way. These natives are even smarter than the last ones:


Could it be? Really?



Yep. Not often a hut can put ya in a new Era. :cool:

Now comes my minor :smoke: moment...I didn't stop to see where the Iron is at this point. You'll get to see in a turn or two.

Turn 5 - 3000 BC
Borders pop again. Nothing terribly interesting revealed. More exploring and dodging animals.

Turn 6 - 2960 BC
Mine is done and now worked. Warrior in 2 and growth to size 3 in 2. It's like I planned it. :mischief:

Send the Worker to the FP to start a farm (7 turns)

Scout is playing footsie with a Lion, and finds more cows and a banana up near the Copper/Gold. There's a tile that catches all 4 resources in the BFC. We'd lose a forest, but it looks pretty strong. No screenie (sorry), but you'll see it in the maps at the end of this post.

Turn 7 - 2920 BC
More scouting. Heavy jungle revealed up by the copper/gold area.

Current turn and discussion in next post.
 
Turn 8 - 2880 BC
Warrior #2 done. Moscow grows to size 3. Settler started, due in 8.

And the governor is an idiot. Here's what it did for tile assignments.



It doesn't seem to understand that a 1/2/0 tile is better for building Settlers than a 2/1/0 tile (since we get 50% bonus hammers for Settlers). So I MM it. Still due in 8, but we'll get more overflow.



We should keep this in mind for future Settler builds.

So...I've stopped here to pose a couple questions to the group:

Question 1 - the Settler
Which site should we send our Settler to, in 8 turns? On the maps below, you'll see that we have Copper as noted, plus way off to the SW. Iron is west of Moscow near the wheat, and also in the SW.

SW of Moscow:



W of Moscow:



N of Moscow:



Overview:



Question 2 - Techs
When Masonry comes in 5 turns, what next?

I was thinking Wheel and Pottery. We need wheel to hook up the iron or copper, because neither is on a river. Pottery will get commerce going, plus we want a granary in Moscow for the whipping we're going to do.

But with free Mysticism and our early Masonry, we could try for Monotheism to found Judaism. Or perhaps the Oracle, though I suspect we'll miss it unless we abandon the Great Wall.

Here's the current tech outlook:



Please discuss. I'll finish my set tonight, with or without input.
 
Good turns so far! I would recommend revolting to Slavery and whipping that settler in a turn or two :whipped: as far as city site, i'm not entirely convinced of any ONE site as of yet, but am leaning towards the copper/cows/gold site to the north. access to water for irragion and a good production for now ~ maybe turn it into a Watermill Factory town later?? i've never experimented w/that strategy but it would be good for wonder-building if we need to.

I say let's try for Judaism ~ if it gets disovered, we swap out to pottery>writing>alph>col
 
Before I ever read Pholk's response, I thought to myself "copper-cows-gold on a river north of Moscow". Also, down southwest has a gold-copper-silk site on a river that will be pretty awesome.

Oh, and Zophos, I don't know about an autologger for Warlords, but I wrote a note-taker that works fine in Warlords.

Use it just like the custom note command in Eotinb's autologger to write your notes in-game. Warning though, it only puts down what you write. No turn number, battle stats, etc. unless you write them. Really, it's just like using notepad, but with out needing to Alt+tab out of the game.
 
Ok...here's the rest of the set:

Turn 8 - 2880 BC (continued)
As the scout continues into the jungle, he meets the first of the neighbors:





We make nice and press on to the north.

Back home, I sentry both warriors in place. One is busting fog on a wooded hill overlooking the second city site. The other is in Moscow.

Oh, and I do revolt to Slavery. There wasn't a reason before now, but whipping the Settler looks like a good idea. Unfortunately, we will only be able to whip for one pop, so it'll be a few turns yet. (Need to get 55 hammers invested)

Turn 9 - 2840 BC
Out of Anarchy. More exploring in the jungle. Yawn.

Turn 10 - 2800BC
More exploring.

Turn 11 - 2760 BC
More exploring. Found some elephants in the jungle. There are a couple of good potential sites for a city up there, if Hannibal doesn't claim the area first. Could get 'phant/silk/banana or 2x'phant/dye/banana on the same river that runs past our copper site. Check the maps at the end of the post.

Turn 12 - 2720 BC
Um...more exploring. Worker finishes the FP farm this turn. MMing Moscow to use it instead of the forest keeps the same production (+12 hammers toward the settler), but picks up +1 commerce, so I do it.

Turn 13 - 2680 BC
Bah. Two hammers short of whipping the Settler. :mad:



Send the worker to chop forest S of Moscow. On reflection, I probably should have done this before building the FP farm - with a chop and a whip, I could have had the settler 2-3 turns earlier than just with the whip. My :smoke:. Next player can decide what to put the chopped hammers into.

In other news, our scout located Carthaginian borders just north of the 'phants. Again, see the maps at the end.

IBT

Another neighbor comes to visit:



His scout appeared on the NW edge of Moscow's borders, so best guess ATM is that he's somewhere west of Hannibal.

Turn 14 - 2640 BC
Masory is in. Start Polytheism, due in 11 turns, looking towards Monotheism and our first religion. For the record, here are our other choices:



Finally, we can whip the Settler in Moscow for 1 pop. Only saves 3 turns, but we can regrow in 4 if we work both farms, and we keep all the commerce. So...do it.

Ah...I also see that Hannibal has dropped a settlement in 'phantland IBT.



Turn 15 - 2600 BC
Settler completes with 10 overflow. Start the Great Wall, due in...238 turns. :eek:



Of course, that will change once we grow back to size 3 (4 turns). Next player can veto - no hammers are invested yet. For instance, we might want a second scout to head W/NW, or another worker to hook up copper, etc. while the first chops in the Wall. And remember that there's a chop coming in a turn or two.

And finally...the scout finds coast up north. Looks like Hannibal has a beach house.



Overview maps and save in next post.
 
The northern jungles, 'phantland, and Carthaginian borders:



Moscow and the western/southwestern known territory:



Note that there are a lot of resource bubbles missing at the bottom of that last screenshot (even though the interface is minimized so it wouldn't cover 'em). Stone, Copper, Gold, Iron, and (I think) Deer, plus a Goody Hut off in the far southwest, if it hasn't been claimed yet.

Checking the Demo screen, we look pretty sad ATM:



However, we stack up OK against our known neighbors:




And...last but not least: THE SAVE
 
Great Wall in 238, I love it :lol: .

The chop finishes and I order up another. Great Wall count now down due to 216.

I meet this fellow.



The AI agrees, this is a good spot for a city.



Will let it grow to 2 and then get a worker/settler combo going. Its connected to Moscow via the river so we don't have to road the copper very far.

Goody hut alert.



False alarm people, please stand down.



Second chop done. Great Wall down to 37 turns. One more chop and I'm off to hook up some copper.

The Scout exploring in the east discovers another nice city location.



Polytheism comes in and I'm in a dilema regarding Wheel, Animal Husbandry or Monotheism. Go for Mono, as we want to found the religion and can worker the gold and copper before cows at St Petersburg.

Last of the chops, we're down to 20 turns.

I leave whoever comes up next this dilema.



Moscow, Great Wall in 12
St Petersburg, Worker in 10

I'd get a settler or two started after these builds.

Copper mined in 2

Monotheism in 5

I would suggest Wheel, Animal Husbandry, Pottery after this.

The Save

View attachment 138451
 
good turns both of you ~ it'll be nice if do in fact get the Great Wall, and I definitely hope to use the first GE for a Pyramids, too, in Moscow and start cranking out Engineers to use in our cities :D from reading other parts of the forum, apparently, this may be an exploit and i'd like to see for myself...plus we could use the GEs :nod:

Let's see...roster, roster, who's got the roster??

Pholkhero >
Zophos >
Ozbenno > just played
Imhotep > UP NOW for 15
Rex > on deck

Imhotep should be back soon, so this should be fine ~
 
Good turns, Oz.

@Pholk: I don't consider the GW->GE->Pyramids to be an exploit, any more than Stonehenge->GP->CoL/CS is an exploit. It doesn't depend on a game bug or logical flaw in the AI (unlike, say, gifting gold to an AI so you can shaft it on a resource trade), and you still have a decent risk of losing the Pyramids to another civ.

Granted...we know in our game that none of the opponents are Industrious, but someone might have stone hooked up. It's going to take us, what, 30+ turns to finish the Wall, and another 50 to cook the GE? An AI with stone and, say, 8 hammers in a city could build the Pyramids the old-fashioned way in less than thirty turns.

So...as I'm thinking about this, can we accelerate the GE at all? If we take Priesthood as our next tech after Monotheism, we could try to build the Oracle in our second city, grab Metal Casting so we can put up a forge and run an engineer in Moscow. We will want an engineer eventually anyway, since GEs are unusually valuable to us in this variant.

Of course, we'd be postponing Wheel->Pottery->Writing and AH even longer, but it's all about the Wonders, right? :D
 
Got it, will play today in the evening (Monday that is).
 
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