PH05: THe Honorable Emperor Spaceman

[Zophos]

I'd say RB's honor rules never said "You can't pay an ally to declare war."
I'll leave it to pholk for interpretation though.

For the record, here are the rules again, from the OP:

1. Every civ has a right to defend itself. A just war is one in which you are not the aggressor. If any civ attacks you unprovoked, you are entitled to remain at war with them and to take retaliatory action upon their units and lands for as long as you wish, up to and including their unconditional surrender.

2. You are not allowed to become a Police State, a Vassalage, or a Theocracy. You must adopt Emancipation (and stay there) once you have the option.

3. You are allowed to refuse tribute demands. You are not allowed to issue demands of your own.

4. You are allowed to sign Defense Pacts.

5. If a friendly civ requests your aid in time of war, you are allowed to join them in the war.

6. If you joined an ally in a war, and they have made peace with the enemy, then you must also make peace with that enemy if the enemy requests peace (unless they are demanding compensation for peace -- you do not ever have to submit to tribute demands.)

7. You may not choose to raze a captured city that the game would allow you to keep. (This includes barbarian cities!)

8. Giving away captured cities is only honorable if they are given to an ally who owned them when the war began. (If you "liberate" an ally's city, you MUST offer to give it back!)

09. Your Spies are only allowed to observe or conduct counter-espionage, not to sabotage or carry out other aggressive missions.

10. Pillaging land improvements in neutral territory, to deny them to a rival or enemy, is dastardly. No bandits on the highways, please.

I hereby apologize for failing to remember #2 for the last couple of turns in my set. Oz, please switch to Emancipation ASAP.

And Robo is right - it doesn't say that you can't bribe other civs into war. Odd oversight, and I actually thought (and played as if) it DID say that, but it's sure not in those rules.

 

[pholkhero]

i'd say that if it's about bringing an ally INTO a war we're already in, then that's "honorable" and legal

conversely, though, i would say that bribing an ally to START a war is not, nor is bringing an ally INTO a war and then ending it that same or the next turnset, is not very honorable ~ seems fair, right?

basically, a simple rule to follow would be: If the AI were my good 'real life'-friend, and we were playing MP, would I pull this deal on them?

so in this case, my 'ruling' ( ) bringing them in is a-okay, but we need to stay in the war for at least 20 turns ~ so put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I'll be able to play tonight. Do we stick with the war and bring in Peter and/or Toko or do we give up Liberalism to end it? I tend to want to bring Peter in to slow down both him and Bismark.

 

[Zophos]

Well I'll be able to play tonight. Do we stick with the war and bring in Peter and/or Toko or do we give up Liberalism to end it? I tend to want to bring Peter in to slow down both him and Bismark.

Peter and Augustus are both leading us in points, and (IIRC) in at least some tech. By all means, slow 'em down. It should take the heat off us with Bismark (since Peter is quite a bit closer to him), but I'd recommend getting some navy ready to repel boarders if necessary.

 

[Meatbuster]

But we already have a navy, didn't you see SuperGalley who defeated the mighty Caravel without a scratch?

Seriously, yes more navy...

 

[Zophos]

But we already have a navy, didn't you see SuperGalley who defeated the mighty Caravel without a scratch?

Seriously, yes more navy...

Oh, I hadn't forgotten. I'm just glad he only brought a Caravel. You'll note that Bismark has Astronomy on us...

 

[pholkhero]

i say world war is one the menu ~ Surprise!

 

[Ozbenno]

Sorry people. I can't get to this tonight . Forgot the old man was over for dinner, much was had and Emporer isn't the right setting to play in this state. I will definately be right for tomorrow night, unless pholk wants to me to the back of the roster.

 

[pholkhero]

eh, i'm easy. if Robo can play today/tonight, pls post a got it and you two can swap. if not, playing tonight is fine, too.

 

[Meatbuster]

I can play within 16 hours, I think Ozbenno, you may be able to play before then.

 

[Ozbenno]

ll be able to play in 9 at most, so you should be able to go straight away RK!

 

[pholkhero]

robo ~ i see you're on ~ play!

 

[Meatbuster]

Sorry, I'm in the office right now. (it's 10 AM here)

 

[Sweetacshon]

Hey guys, I am back. Apologies for missing so much, I didn't know my trip would blow out towards 2 weeks back when we started. Anyway, consider me lurking for the remainder.

It seems as tho you are in with a shot here... especially with war brewing. What if Peter takes a chunk of Germany and becomes even stronger?? Regardless, without spies sabotaging ss parts, the leaders warring should provide a nice window of opportunity.

 

[Ozbenno]

OK I'm playing now!!! Report in a couple of hours!

 

[Ozbenno]

Newly promoted Grenadier, Ziggy Stardust, strode into General Washington's tent.



As usual, the General was sleeping at his desk, muttering to himself. He could just make out what he was saying.

"So hard and shiny..."

Gently, Ziggy shoke the General on the shoulder.

At the first touch Washington's head shot up. He looked around, then saw Ziggy in front of him. "Ah, yes Ziggy my boy, what's up?"

'Were you having that dream about the metal monster that flies in the air again, General?" Ziggy said, eyes searching the room for empty alcohol bottles.

"What on ear... I mean yes, that's exactly what I was doing." said Washington. "Now, what are you doing here, waking an old man from his sleep?"

"I've got wonderful news, General."

"Well out with it boy, what news?"

"The Prime Minister has resigned."

"He's what!" shouted Washington jumping to his feet. "Why, that's wonderful news. Drinks all round. I'm sure there is a bottle of wine around here somewhere." said Washington lifting random objects on his table. "So what has made that bumbling idiot Ozbenno resign then?"

"Well, sir, I produced a dossier of the state of the nation since his election in 1500 and it was enough for him to hand in his resignation to parliament immediately."

"Excellent work my boy. What's in that dossier of yours, then?"

"Lets go through it section by section shall we?"

THE WAR

"Well Sir, our friends the Japanese and Russians were kind enough to join our struggle against the beastly Germans."





"The Russians suffered some early casualties."



"And then the Japanese managed some gains."



"We also managed to upgrade our ship."



"Don't you mean navy Ziggy?"

"That is our navy General."

"Oh dear!"

"We fear that Brennus may be planning something as well."



"As you can see, Bismark's power has been diminshed somewhat but we need more troops sir!"



Summary: Criminal neglect of navy and army, no real progress in the war against Germay.

THE ECONOMY

"Well sir, there was a heated discussion in Parliament as to what to do with the Great Merchant."

"I assume you told them I wanted him sent on a trade mission to France."

"Of course sir."

"And..."

"Well the Prime Minister Ozbenno argued about the risk of running into German Privateers and mainly the time required to undertake such a mission."

"In other words, he didn't want the next government getting the credit for such a mission."

"Well, the man is very shortsighted."

"Yes, I guess that's what those glasses are for!"

"Touche, sir."



Summary: Dubious use of a Great Merchant

SCIENCE MATTERS

"Well we were able to finish Astronomy and get Music and Theology as part of the war effort. We concentrated our research on Chemistry, then Replaceable Parts and finally Steam Power. We managed to get this deal from Augustus. A bit light but he's the only one will trade with us currently."



"What about the calls to demolish the Great Library?"

"Well the Prime Minister mentioned that it may be worth researching Scientific Method and then Physics to try and pick up the Great Scientist as Peter and Louis have Scientific Method already. An alternative plan which he is now following is to research Steam Power and then Assembly Line before tearing down the Library."

"Hmmm, perhaps the man isn't really as big an idiot as he seems?"

"Really, General."

"I was joking Ziggy."

Summary: Questionable trade and research path

MISCALLANEOUS

"Well after reading an ancient holy text the Prime Minister forced us to adopt a civic called Emancipation. Free Religion was thrown in as a bonus as it was still just one turn of Anarchy."



"Hmm, shame we can't whip those layabout hippies anymore."

Summary: Our days of whipping are gone.



The save

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88650/HonEmpSpaceman_AD-1550.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Meatbuster]

Ziggy Stardust... actually... Ziggy the XXth, where XX is a number greater than 20, stomps his foot. As he walks down the hallway of the White House... he can't help but ask himself, "What happened to the Glory Days? When my great ancestor was fighting all those wars?"

His bloodline has always been held in high regard... it has kept his family in the aristocracy for ages, and helped him land a position as the Defense Minister.

He remembered the old concert at Stonehenge he read about in the history books. It made him so proud of his heritage. But his excellent genetic heritage was all going to waste. He needed a war to prove himself. But no... there's this little problem.... the Foreign Policy of America. The Honorable Foreign Policy.

Sigh. What a boring life. He's going to the conveniently placed video arcade (it's just down the hallway of the White House) to play Missile Command again.

"I know, if there won't be a war, I will work it so that my sons or daughters... and their offspring, will be the first to reach the stars," he told himself.

"General Stardust! Did you hear the news? Washington has cut our science budget to 60%!"

Ziggy slapped his forehead. "So much for that dream," he said.

Turn 1:
Tolosa: University -> Settler

Turn 2:
NY: Bank -> Observatory
Boston: Grenadier -> Grenadier

Turn 6:
Boston: Grenadier -> Grenadier
Tolosa: Settler -> Jewish Missionary
Research: Steam Power -> Assembly Line
(I bet we can get Rifling and "Mil. Trad or Sci Meth" from AC soon.)

Turn 7:
Seattle is founded.

Turn 8:
Brennus cancels free copper deal. Give him Education to improve relations slightly. (Don't worry, he's way behind in tech)
Trade Horses to Peter for his Copper + 12 gpt.

Augustus Caesar asks us to cancel trade with Japan. The only thing we have with Japan is Open Borders, and AC is a good trading partner, so Yes.
Yep, all of that happened IBT.

Tolosa: Jewish Missionary -> Grenadier
Judaism 007'ed to Vienne.

Turn 9:
Boston: Grenadier -> Market (happiness problem)

"Well, at least I have a new city to take a vacation in," Ziggy murmurs as he rotates the trackball to launch another SAM to destroy the barrage of enemy projectiles.

"General Stardust," an aide whispers, "Most of Seattle's infrastructure is still under construction, including the planned theme park."

"Crud," curses Ziggy, "look what you did, I lost a city and it's all your fault!"

"Sir, it's only a game..."

"Silence!"

As a result of some brand-spanking new infrastructure in various cities as well as the deal with Peter, we are now making +7gpt at 70% science.

What I have forgotten to do delete old troops. May consider it to save money.

 

[Meatbuster]

Other things...

Statue of Liberty: 1 turn remaining

For Steam + Demo, Peter will give us Mil. Trad + Sci. Meth + Divine Right
For Constitution + Liberalism, Brennus will give us Mil. Trad
For Democracy, AC will give us Sci. Method
For our Steam, AC will give us Map + 690 gold (he's gotta be researching it now)
It is impossible at this point to get AC's Rifling for 1 tech only (we have Steam + Demo over AC)
Augustus has Steel but not trading it yet.
Louis: WFYABTA
Toku: Refuses to talk
Bismarck: War

Suggestion: Grab Mil. Trad from Brennus, get Sci. Meth from Peter by giving him Steam. Wait until Assembly Line, then try for a Assembly Line + Steam? = Rifle + Steel trade with AC.

 

[Zophos]

Other things...

Statue of Liberty: 1 turn remaining

For Steam + Demo, Peter will give us Mil. Trad + Sci. Meth + Divine Right
For Constitution + Liberalism, Brennus will give us Mil. Trad
For Democracy, AC will give us Sci. Method
For our Steam, AC will give us Map + 690 gold (he's gotta be researching it now)
It is impossible at this point to get AC's Rifling for 1 tech only (we have Steam + Demo over AC)
Augustus has Steel but not trading it yet.
Louis: WFYABTA
Toku: Refuses to talk
Bismarck: War

Suggestion: Grab Mil. Trad from Brennus, get Sci. Meth from Peter by giving him Steam. Wait until Assembly Line, then try for a Assembly Line + Steam? = Rifle + Steel trade with AC.

I have had the impression that the AI values a tech more highly when there is still an unbuilt wonder attached to it. That would lead me to think we should trade Democracy for as much as we can get for it...right now. We CAN'T lose the Statue now, with one turn remaining, but the AI doesn't know that.

@Ozbenno: I haven't opened the saves yet, or done the math, but I do have a couple of questions for the resigned Prime Minister:

1. Did we research Theology, or trade for it? The tech is useless to us (we can't run Theocracy in this variant), so I hope we just got it as a bonus in some trade.
2. Why Free Religion, and not Free Speech? we've got to go cottage-heavy now to research the big space-race techs, and we need the boost to the towns sometime. Like I said, I haven't run the numbers, so help me understand the choice.

 

[remconius]

That makes me UP!

Let me review the game tonight.