PH09: The King and We

GreyFox · Oct 17, 2007

My guess is "Sailing" is for galley to ferry the worker over to Quarry marble and also enable coastal trade route (for connecting marble).

I for one has never been keen on Oracle, but I am willing to go along if the team thinks it is worth it.

pholkhero · Oct 17, 2007

if so, i still think that's not the right move ~ you all are also convincing me against the oracle, why not go for Iron Working instead for now?

expand to another city, and build some much needed defense. I'm REALLY developing a healthy respect for Agg AI, and do not want to let our guard down, esp. near Napoleon and Churchie, who i've found to be an opportunistic little son of a gun.

berserks01 · Oct 17, 2007

I'm against Oracle personally, never cared for it really but everyone seems to aim for it except Fox ... thus sailing to help it along. IW would've been my next choice.

Crotazzo · Oct 17, 2007

GOT IT. will play in 12 hours

So, as everyone seems to be against the oracle, i will focus my turnset in buiding some military (we lack the barracks right?).. and improving our tiles.
Will set reserch for iron working, as we dont need to rush connecting the marble.
Even though is a little early for really planning a war, i would like to discuss your thoughts about attacking france. I will post mine after playing my turnset.

Crotazzo · Oct 18, 2007

Played my turnset.

It was an uneventfull one, es expected.

1st. set research to IW.

The great wall built in a far away land.

A few turns later, settled our second city. We are pretty boxed in:

Started building monument.

After our settler was complete, y managed to whip a worker.
We have to think how we can improve our capital fast. As in size 4 we are working not 1 but 2 forst plains. Im amazed by the crappy start we got.
Probably we want to finish sailing after iw and improve the marble, just to work that tile.

Our only scout discovered Bismark's lands on the sowth west corner.

I got this event. But the game cheated, and we only got a +1modifier with churchill. (i thought 20 gold for +1 with EVERYONE was a good thing)

About a war with Nappy:

As we are getting boxed in we have no other choice if we want to win this game. It will be a gamble, but its a risk we must take.
I dont do the archer thing, as he was needed for barbs this turnset, next player may want to send one of our archers to scout that area.
I think we should start to focus on military after building a 3rd city, i would like to get 2 or 3 cats before attacking, but at that point he might get to feudalism ruining our plans.

I never tried the harrassing strategy, so someone who did please post what our war moves should be

The save: View attachment PH09 BC-1500.CivBeyondSwordSave

Sorry about the lack of screens, but really nothing else happened.

pholkhero · Oct 18, 2007

good turns, and I agree that this IS a crappy start ~ we'll just have to see if we can make anything out of it. I would say, if we're going to wait for Cats, we might as well try and settle the other 3 spots that are still left on that rudimentary dotmap ~ grab those eastern Cows ASAP, and then try and settle for those sheep/wheat.

We should also think about getting some culture ASAP in teotihuacan, not jsut for the copper, but to compete w/churchill ~ maybe religion AND a monument.

I'm not familiar much, either, w/a choke, but it may be as simple as a couple archers parked in their territory ~ though I'm not sure, at this point, if that'll be too effective. plus, being at war, Nappy will most likely build a ton of units, too. [ed: i see Simon also mentioned that re: parking and his spamming units ~ i'm not sure it would be worth it for father down the line, but getting a unit or 2 over there to be ready to pillage once the war starts will work well.

If we can get to 4 cities, and then start the whipfest for troops, which is what I think Monty should be used for, we'll do okay.

Roster (15 Turns in Peace)
pholkhero
pigswill
GreyFox
beserks01
Crotazzo >> just played
Simon_c >> UP NOW
Negyvenketto >> on deck

Simon_c · Oct 18, 2007

pholkhero said:
If we can get to 4 cities, and then start the whipfest for troops, which is what I think Monty should be used for, we'll do okay.

Got it.

OK. So, I guess the plan is to delay going to way with France until we've got cats.
So, we'll want cats and jags and we'll alters too. So I guess tech path would be

IW (Start building some jags) -> Priesthood->col (build the alters) Maths->Construction
We also want to finish sailing in there somewhere to get the marble developed. (it won't hook it up without finishing village)

I guess eastern cowtown is the priority to get, followed by northern city and fishing village.

Does anybody have a list of what techs GPs can pop in BtS ? I'm wondering if we should build a temple to run a priest to pop CoL, but I don't know what techs we'd have to avoid to do that.

I'll try to send an archer over towards france, and sign openborders to scout the place out. I don't think harassment will be to our benefit as he'll just spam archers, and probably beeline vassalage for longbows. but, do we want to grab a worker if there's a realistic chance of getting him home again ?

pholkhero · Oct 18, 2007

Simon_c said:
Does anybody have a list of what techs GPs can pop in BtS ?

Here's a Thread With Them

Also, w/the BUG mod, it should show you the next 2 bulbing preferences for each GP in the tech screen.

Your tech path looks good to me ~ Altars ARE of supreme importance; cutting that unhappiness time will get us grown much faster (so we can whip again) ~

Fox and I played a game utilizing this process where, by rules, we had to whip all our cities every 30 turns or so ~ if interested, click on Waiting for Huitzilpochtil in my sig ~ fun game!!

Simon_c · Oct 18, 2007

played. write up tomorrow.

Simon_c · Oct 19, 2007

OK. Here goes.
101: 1500BC, our archer on the hill gets hit by the barb archer. Is this our first fight ? Hopefully it's a sign of things to come, we win. :cool:

Sadly we're also the puniest civ on the disk.

Nice way to start my first SG :undecide:

(is it just me who thinks of these flat maps as more like diskworld ? :lol:

)

Notice the other barb archer up there, a worrier is sniffer around to the south of our archers current position too.
I set both cities to work on more archers for defense wile we work on iron working.

I notice one of the workers was left on a goto :nono:

Fortunately it's to the sheep, and I want to link a road into England there.
I pull the archer from the north down to Teotihuacan, (is it just me that finds Aztec cities impossible to remember ? I'll call it copercity. ) Tenochtitlan should be OK from barbs as the only way in is past copertown and we've nearly eliminated fog in our little enclave.

I send the injured archer back to town to heal up, and plan to pull the fresh one back onto sentry hill. next turn.

102: 1425BC:
I forgot to do OB with Nappy, so I do that now. I also put our EPs against him as he's our #1 target. :evil:

103: 1425BC.
The Baron comes a calling and would like open borders. Since noone dislikes anyone else right now, i figure it would be useful. It could help our scout down in the south-west escape from barbs too.

Not sure where the barb warrior went to He seems to have wandered off to harras someone else.

106: 1350BC

So that's iron working in. After seeing iron on the eastern shore of the lake, I continue on sailing. Good job we don't need iron for jags cos we need a city on the lake shore to connect it. But it will do great for production.
I set the build queue to jags as getting a couple in would be good for seeing off these barb archers.

108 1300BC
There's a barb worrier sneaking up on coppercity. Send the archer from sentry hill to intercept.
The worker has built a road to England, so our trade route income has just doubled,

But, so has Lizies.

Our archer beat the warrior up and got a promotion. I'll keep that in the bag for later.

110: 1250bc

Get sailing in. Switch to priesthood. Not sure where we want the techs to go (see later) but we need priesthood either way.

112 1200BC
While exploring France, our archer er, accidentally managed to damage their nice new roads between Paris and Orleans through no mans land :mischief:

What a shame.
It may not make much difference if Nappie has sailing, but he'll still probably spend some worker turns fixing it.

113 1175bc
We bump into Saladin, he's Islamic.

114 1150bc
Next turn he asks for open borders.

I think not. It will probably piss too many people off, what with you being a different religion and all that. Hopefully he's far enough away that he won't be a direct threat for a while, but if others think we should OB with him, then that's fine by me.

I rushed a galley in the Tenochtitlan and the worker is waiting there to climb into the boat. There may be enough overflow to complete the archer in the build queue to send over as an escort.

--------------------
We seem a long way back right now. I got a couple of cottages built around coppercity which may help eventually. The border pop is due there in 2 turns, and the worker is ready to work on the copper.

So, tech path.

There's the option of building a temple, running a specialist and the popping CoL via the prophet.
I think we'd need to get masonry, monotheism and meditation, so it may not be worth it. However, we need something to help spread out religion, so we need mono or meditation+monastery anyway and masonry to work the marble.

Or, if the prophet is too far away when we've done all that, we could get CoL the normal way, and (if we don't get masonry) pop CS with the prophet. Things to think about.

Nothing else of note happened during the turn. There just didn't seem a chance to start on another settler. Sorry.

here's the save http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/111964/PH09_BC-1150.CivBeyondSwordSave

And the roster.

Roster (15 Turns in Peace)
pholkhero >> on deck
pigswill
GreyFox
beserks01
Crotazzo
Simon_c >> just played
Negyvenketto >> UP NOW

pholkhero · Oct 19, 2007

ahh, gotta love a player who updates the roster :goodjob:

nice turns, but i have to ask:

a worrier is sniffer around to the south

Huh? i'm pretty sure the first word is warrior (though, I am a bit worried, too

), but sniffer? :confused:

i'm at a loss ~

everything else looks good, and you'll get the hang of the cities after this game is over. Writing them over and over (and over and over) again sets them into your head ~ tenochtitlan, teotihuacan, tlatelaco, etc . . . it's enough to make you wish for a "b" or some soft consonant :lol:

they cut off that route to CS if i'm not mistaken, but I like the idea of running a specialist, even if it's just to build the shrine to help us out. I think we're trying to do too much at this point, perhaps. Let's focus on getting our cities established and improved, and then move into the battle arena. As I said, with 4 or 5 cities, w/good food, we can whip out 8-10 units pretty quickly, grow w/max food, rinse, repeat. QED.

Simon_c · Oct 19, 2007

pholkhero said:
ahh, gotta love a player who updates the roster

nice turns, but i have to ask:
Huh? i'm pretty sure the first word is warrior (though, I am a bit worried, too ), but sniffer? i'm at a loss ~

Doh, that should be warrior and sniffing.
I blame my spell checker in my browser disabling it self when cutting/pasting text.

maybe.

everything else looks good, and you'll get the hang of the cities after this game is over. Writing them over and over (and over and over) again sets them into your head ~ tenochtitlan, teotihuacan, tlatelaco, etc . . . it's enough to make you wish for a "b" or some soft consonant

the problem is, they all look the same to me. Dyslexia I expect.

they cut off that route to CS if i'm not mistaken, but I like the idea of running a specialist, even if it's just to build the shrine to help us out. I think we're trying to do too much at this point, perhaps.

Yep. I guess the decision is do we try to spread the religion in the next turn set, to resist the pressure that will come sooner or later from Nottingham, or research CoL and get another city out.

Western cow city looked more vulnerable to me than northern city.

pigswill · Oct 19, 2007

Cities and sacrifical altars.

negyvenketto · Oct 19, 2007

GProphet would give us Theology before CoL

so it's not worth it.
With our current research rate CoL would take 35 turns, I would insert Masonry before it for the quarry. Agree on more cities needed.
Unfortunately I can't play now, hopefully can tomorrow evening (around 24h from now). Pholk if you want to go ahead I don't mind a swap.

pholkhero · Oct 19, 2007

negy ~ i just played 4 sgs, so i'm sg'ed out for a couple days ~ please go ahead and play as you can.

negyvenketto · Oct 20, 2007

Alright, I managed to get some time so here we go

After finishing Priesthood I started AH to help Copper city to grow, but on the next turn traded for it instead.

There are horses near the proposed northern city. I would consider to put that city SE from the wheat and use the sheep in another city.

In 1025 BC Bismark wanted sailing for free, I sad no.
In 850 BC opened border with Qin
In 750 BC Churchill converted to Taoism, we have a friend now

Tech trade screen. Ramsses unwilling to trade Alphabet for Sailing+IW maybe we can put 1-2 turns of research into Alpha and he will trade it :dunno:

Units: We have an archer on Napi's copper. Scout lost

1st settler in 2 turns in capital.
In copper city another is started, worker is chopping to hurry it.

Spoiler :

Simon_c · Oct 20, 2007

Looks good. Nice to see our religion spreading to Teotihuacan and Hastings.

And I notice Nappy has changed to Islam. Lets hope salidin is far enough away to keep out of the upcoming war. :mischief:

In 1025 BC Bismark wanted sailing for free, I sad no.

It could have been worth giving Bismark that. He's far enough away that it's going to take a long time if ever for our religion to spread there. And sailing isn't strategic on this map. I've also noticed that if a pleased of friendly AI asks for a tech and you give them it, they will often give you a similar one back on the next turn. Oh well. :dunno:

[as close to a "galic shrug" smiley I could find.

]

pholkhero · Oct 20, 2007

i never have tried asking for one back on the next turn; will keep that in mind.

i've got the save, and will take a look at it in a bit, and post some more thoughts about the future.

pholkhero · Oct 20, 2007

will change Teotihuacan to a Jag to grow to 4 before getting another settler out. that way we can whip him, and also send get another Jag out in about the same time.

I'll send the one from Tenoch to the cowtown, and save this one for the north. i'm still partial to the wheat/sheep city as I think food on this map is the scarcest thing, and sheep alone, i don't think, is enough for a city. but we'll have time to discuss i think.

i'll also order up a worker once tenoch is at pop4. and i want to cottage that spice near teo for commerce, or, silk i mean.

i think i'm going to keep with CoL for now, rather than going a bit for ABCs and hoping we'll get a trade ~ bird in the hand, so to speak.

Won't be able to play until tomorrow, but will also report then.

negyvenketto · Oct 22, 2007

Simon_c said:
It could have been worth giving Bismark that. He's far enough away that it's going to take a long time if ever for our religion to spread there. And sailing isn't strategic on this map.

Because of the map type, it's probably a monopoly tech for us. I wanted to deny him to use it in his trades with other AIs.

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