Philosophical Leader - The Opening - Vanilla

[AThousandYoung]

I play Random leaders on Huge/Marathon/Shuffle or Fractal/Noble/Random/Random. When I draw a Philosophical leader, I realize that the Pyramids are what I should be striving for, but unfortunately I rarely have Stone or the Industrious trait (are there any Philosophical/Industrious leaders?). Therefore I typically lose the Pyramid race.

What's your strategy for very early game Philosophical leaders if you don't get Pyramids?

 

[Spammurabi]

You could try running a cottage economy but just make sure one or two cities run a library with two scientists.

 

[Cam_H]

AThousandYoung,

Last thing first - 'no' to Philosophical-Industrious.

Well there are a couple of approaches on what to do with the Philosophical trait if you miss The Pyramids.

Some players will advise getting half a dozen Axes and a Spear, and "get Pyramids" that way.

Some generalised suggestions ...

Lightbulbing:

As Spammurabi has just part-noted (cross post!) I suspect that one compelling strategy would be to not waste time after covering your worker technologies in getting to Writing and build a Library or two, and start running Specialist Scientists. Each of these guys will lightbulb Philosophy (incl. Pacifism civic), Paper, or chunk of Education after you've got basics such as Mathematics covered. This will push you towards the Liberalism free tech'.

You can bee-line with the religious path too towards Theology (incl. Christianity), Code of Laws (Courthouses, The Caste System, Forbidden Palace), or a big chunk of Civil Service {that is much easier on vanilla than Warlords b.t.w.} if you build Temples and run Specialist Priests.

Lightbulbing therefore allows you to make up for a lot of lost ground in the technology race that might have otherwise been assisted by Representation.

If you've yet to see it, you can check out Dave McW's Great People Tech Prefences for more on lightbulbing.

Great Merchants

While some players like to settle these guys as Super Specialists in commerce cities, I'll typically send them on Trade Missions that will typically allow you to run at 100% for several dozen turns (if you don't use the for unit upgrades). You will be wanting to get Currency fairly early on anyway thanks to the way it helps off-set your maintenance burden (free in all cities, can trade for ) but a Market allows you to run Specialist Merchants (also available through the Caste System). You can also pop these through some of the early WoWs such as The Great Lighthouse.

 

[AThousandYoung]

"Some players will advise getting half a dozen Axes and a Spear, and "get Pyramids" that way."

Yeah - but that requires one to know where the Pyramids are. Considering the last two games the Pyramids were done before I knew who most of the others even were, not to mention where (I think I knew two the game before last and one the last game), this can be difficult.

Your advice is good though. Thanks.

Suppose I did get the Pyramids - how would my use of GP differ from your lightbulbing suggestion?

 

[Agent Cooper]

If you really want the Pyramids with a non-industrious philo leader and stone is nowhere to be found, there's always the Oracle -> Metal Casting -> Great Engineer -> Pyramids gambit using a lot of chopping and a specialist to build the wonder. The Great Wall+forge can do the trick as well.

It takes careful preperation to pull it off at Prince level and higher though...

 

[Vulcans]

"Some players will advise getting half a dozen Axes and a Spear, and "get Pyramids" that way."

Yeah - but that requires one to know where the Pyramids are. Considering the last two games the Pyramids were done before I knew who most of the others even were, not to mention where (I think I knew two the game before last and one the last game), this can be difficult.

Your advice is good though. Thanks.

Suppose I did get the Pyramids - how would my use of GP differ from your lightbulbing suggestion?

if you really want it then exploore the world, and zoom in on every city you discover. you'll see the pyramids.

 

[Hackapell]

Suppose I did get the Pyramids - how would my use of GP differ from your lightbulbing suggestion?

It wouldn't; your specialists would simply produce more beakers per turn, making them the most efficient source of beakers in the early game. You would use the GS's in the same way, but the rate at which you self-research techs would be approximately 50% faster. That's all representation does.

 

[futurehermit]

With pyramids on low skill level: Run representation-enhanced scientists and settle most GSs in one super-science city (lightbulb key techs like philosophy).

Without pyramids on low skill level: Lightbulb key techs (philosophy, paper, education, liberalism or machinery, printing press, chemistry)

Running caste system + pacificism is a good idea after initial expansion (either through warfare or peacefully) for a philosophical leader.

 

[AThousandYoung]

if you really want it then exploore the world, and zoom in on every city you discover. you'll see the pyramids.

Well, yeah, but by that time I don't think a half dozen axes will win that city for me.

 

[Plex]

For some reason, all the way up through Prince the AI seems to avoid the Pyramids until a little later on. If you really insist on it early and want to make 100% sure you get it, just plop down a city in a bunch of forest and chop for it.

 

[pigswill]

I'm not sure how pyramids boost philosophical more than any other trait. I must be missing something.

 

[Plex]

they allow you to get to representation much sooner, making a specialist economy much better early in the game. more specialists means more GPP, which is doubled by phi. just getting more bang for the buck really

 

[ds61514]

IMO the best wonder for Philo (best wonder in the game?) is the Great Library. GL gives you 8 GPP/turn (16 GPP/turn if Philo), which means that you get more GS's (and thus techs/cash/war declarations/etc) faster than someone with the Pyramids.

 

[svv]

^^^ You want that too - later. Of course, having Pyramids is going to help you get to the tech for Great Library sooner, and the great engineer you can generate from the Pyramids will allow you to build the Great Library right away, while the city is happily building axemen in the meantime.

 

[KMadCandy]

if you really want it then exploore the world, and zoom in on every city you discover. you'll see the pyramids.

if the world is not all on the same landmass, that will likely take 1000s of years.

 

[vormuir]

First, Philosophical + Industrious doesn't exist, and for exactly this reason. Clever players could combine the two traits to devastating effect.

Getting Stone is a matter of luck, but on Prince level you still have a decent shot at the Pyramids if you pursue them with determination. Grab Bronzeworking and Masonry ASAP, then chop forests to speed things along.

As others have already pointed out, the other route to an early Great Engineer is an Oracle slingshot to Metal Casting. Chop/whip Forges and get Engineer specialists running early.

You do not *need* the Pyramids when you're Philosophical... but, yeah, they're pretty nice.

The other nice Wonder is the Parthenon, which moves you from double GPP to triple. This will have you popping Great People like crazy. IME, the Parthenon is just as good as the Pyramids, and maybe better. Early Representation is very nice, but extra Great People? Sweeeet.

Also, the Parthenon seems to be easier than the Pyramids -- the AIs don't seem as interested in it.


Doug M.

 

[cabert]

^^parthenon is only +50%, so it brings you from 200% to 250% GPP production.
It's also a great artist wonder, very likely to pollute your pool .
IMHO, the single best move for a philo leader is to research BW, then writing asap, then chop/whip libraries everywhere you can get enough food to assign 2 scientitsts.
Wonders? sure they are good, but it takes sooo long to get them.

 

[pigswill]

Parthenon may only be +50% gp production but it still means you get 5 GP in the time you'd otherwise have got 4. Pyramids may still be more useful overall. For a non-industrious leader it may come down to whether you've got stone or marble available.