Pie's Ancient Europe

When were grapes moved to Italy? Imho give Italy grapes, but unlocked at a much later tech ... as I believe they had Wine during the Iron age, if not before.
 
Tasunke said:
When were grapes moved to Italy? Imho give Italy grapes, but unlocked at a much later tech ... as I believe they had Wine during the Iron age, if not before.
Click to expand...
grapes have to be imported. Once that happens they become established in your land. Refer to PAE mod concept in the civilpedia for clarification.
 
Barbarian movement.

Playing on the large ice age map I was chasing a group of mercenaries through my territory. Once they cleared my borders they grew wings and moved 4 tiles in one turn, including crossing rivers. Is this intended? I looked at them after and they had no promotions to give them extra speed.

Shelling.

I think this is too powerful. Even one or two archers can devastate a stack in a few turns, making it very difficult to attack a city.

Traits and trade.

This may be intended but there isn't much trade going on, very few open borders. Does that change over time?
 
mourndraken said:
grapes have to be imported. Once that happens they become established in your land. Refer to PAE mod concept in the civilpedia for clarification.
Click to expand...

Does this require that you actively control Egypt/ wherever else there are grapes? and then use a grain wagon to physically move the grapes from X location to Y location?
 
Barbarian moves:
I can't imagine that. Without roads and/or flight promotion

Shelling:
Yes, I try the old rangeAttack function again.

Traits and trade: hm. It's better, when you first give a gift. Only friendly attitude opens borders.

Grapes: no, they are spread by vintager (building) (per city 50% chance) when you have the bonus resource of grapes. It is a feature from beginning on (PAE I) and works different. Like horses and wardogs.
 
yeah,, Pretty much impossible to take cities now. It doesn't seem reasonable to need a stack of 30 units to take out a size 4 town because it can just spam basket archers. I'm not even sure 30 would do it. I had like 15 short-bow men and 5 axe's vs 7 basket archers in a size 4 town (not on a hill and without walls) It wasn't even close. They only lost like 2 archers. It's too bad because I love ranged attack, but it completely breaks the rock paper scissors of the battle mechanic intended. how come the AI didn't do this in VBeta? There was ranged attack and I thought the AI used it, But , the Ai didn't just spam a crap-load of Basket archers and call it a day.
 
ununcle said:
yeah,, Pretty much impossible to take cities now. It doesn't seem reasonable to need a stack of 30 units to take out a size 4 town because it can just spam basket archers. I'm not even sure 30 would do it. I had like 15 short-bow men and 5 axe's vs 7 basket archers in a size 4 town (not on a hill and without walls) It wasn't even close. They only lost like 2 archers. It's too bad because I love ranged attack, but it completely breaks the rock paper scissors of the battle mechanic intended. how come the AI didn't do this in VBeta? There was ranged attack and I thought the AI used it, But , the Ai didn't just spam a crap-load of Basket archers and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Actually you can but it involves a certain amount of sacrifice. Use 2 stacks (not necessarily full stacks), keep your melee troops out of range until you've reduced the wall to zero (if applicable), then move your melee troops up. They'll be hit just once before attacking. However you'll lose quite a few units in a sort of forlorn hope attack. Also I'd say you need more melee units and fewer archers in a stack of 20 for attacking a well-defended city now.

If you're attacking a civ city rather than barbarian city, using spies can also help a great deal, but they don't work against barbarians.
 
Antigenes2 said:
Actually you can but it involves a certain amount of sacrifice. Use 2 stacks (not necessarily full stacks), keep your melee troops out of range until you've reduced the wall to zero (if applicable), then move your melee troops up. They'll be hit just once before attacking. However you'll lose quite a few units in a sort of forlorn hope attack. Also I'd say you need more melee units and fewer archers in a stack of 20 for attacking a well-defended city now.

If you're attacking a civ city rather than barbarian city, using spies can also help a great deal, but they don't work against barbarians.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't typically attack cities with Archers :lol: I just did an archer rush just to see because I read up thread that it was a problem and I was to impatient to wait and finish my Axes. And I always use spies but this was early game so not availible. I know it can be done, but gone are the days of a double city 2 pronged assault IMO. especially if they're actually cities. At least early game. The economy just wouldn't support the troops needed, This was a size 4 town. Meh,,, Maybe its a good thing one can't just waltz in with a 30 unit stack and a couple spies take out a couple of key enemy cities anymore. I'll need to rethink this because if the answer is nerfing ranged attack I don't like the answer. I was thinking it would be cool if Shield Bearers could reduce the damage a bit therefore reducing the size of the armies needed for a siege. Or maybe at least requiring a city to have walls in order for archers to mow down my guys :D
 
do not forget about slingers rorarii etc. that get a bonus vs. archers...

and yes two stacks one of slingers and rams and one of archers and swords

though yes the AI use of ranged bombard is a touch much...

you almost have to beline for arrowheads or mercanarianism to stand a chance on a card / map that starts with barb cities already placed.
 
Another remedy would to reduce the 100% city defense bonus. Not eliminate it, but the fact that they can bombard now "and" have such a high city defense is making it so cities are to close to siege proof. Sure the human player can still build a few stacks with slingers, But I don't think the AI will figure that out. At least they haven't in my game. The Greeks, Macedonians, and Illirians have been at war for like 100 turns and not one city has changed hands. Therefore Civs with close neighbors aren't expanding. They're most likely launching wave after wave of suicide armies. I opened the world builder and All civs appear to have there own "founded" cities and no conquered ones with the lone exception of Israel who seem to have taken a small city from Egypt. No other civs out of 39 in the game have conquered a city in 229 turns. Every city over size 9 has 5-7 archers. However, One positive aspect is that civs without neighbors in close proximity are expanding nicely. Much better then in other mods I've played. Most Civs with room to expand all seem to have a flourishing capital and several good cities, so that's a major plus.
 
Btw, thanks for such an awesome mod Pie. Other then RI It's pretty much all I play. The Slavery, resource allocation, recurring black out of unsecured territory, and mercenary mechanics are the best features I've ever seen in a mod and it's not even close IMO. BTW,, is there anyway for me to get "bug" to work with this. In fact, 4 features from RI, would make your mod even more too good to be true. Bug, Bat, RI's civopedia format, and it's new world builder interface. I'm not sure if you moders ever collaborate, but those features would wear so well in this mod. I prefer the ancient era when I play so I still prefer Pie's with or without these feature. But, I want the best of all mods. I guess as I'm a bit selfish like that :lol:
 
thx ununcle,

BUG: I tested BUG years ago and I didn't like the mass of icons I don't use.
So I programmed some helpful things for myself that's very similar to BUG, eg, general bar, great person bar. eg the bars I implemented better (for smaller resolutions too) and eg the next general bar has an icon from a general in there (if it's already in bug, they have it from PAE). because this was something I missed, which the great person bar had.

I don't know, if this is in BUG too: Stack of units: if a unit can be promoted, you see an icon. you also see, if a unit is a hero or general you see it too.

In the city advisor you see slaves/gladiators in a city and if the city is stopped from growing. this is added and not even in BUG because it's a PAE thing.

So, I can't merge BUG because I would overwrite my files.

BAT: I think, this is BUG and BETTER AI. the same with overwriting files. I do more like my version. Maybe some day, I can add BETTER AI.... it's SDK, so not possible for MAC players

RI civopedia format: I don't know how this looks like. But I also changed some parts in the pedia files. eg. if a tech is capturable or not. this is something no mod has, at least had before PAE.

I like the simple pedia as it is and don't like the overcrowded button pedia where you hardly find anything, but I will have a look or at least, look for screenshots of it. if it's better, why shouldn't I ask for it!

World builder interface: Ha, this is something I didn't touch. This IS possible: do you have a link?
 
pie_at said:
thx ununcle,

BUG: I tested BUG years ago and I didn't like the mass of icons I don't use.
So I programmed some helpful things for myself that's very similar to BUG, eg, general bar, great person bar. eg the bars I implemented better (for smaller resolutions too) and eg the next general bar has an icon from a general in there (if it's already in bug, they have it from PAE). because this was something I missed, which the great person bar had.

I don't know, if this is in BUG too: Stack of units: if a unit can be promoted, you see an icon. you also see, if a unit is a hero or general you see it too.

In the city advisor you see slaves/gladiators in a city and if the city is stopped from growing. this is added and not even in BUG because it's a PAE thing.

So, I can't merge BUG because I would overwrite my files.

BAT: I think, this is BUG and BETTER AI. the same with overwriting files. I do more like my version. Maybe some day, I can add BETTER AI.... it's SDK, so not possible for MAC players

RI civopedia format: I don't know how this looks like. But I also changed some parts in the pedia files. eg. if a tech is capturable or not. this is something no mod has, at least had before PAE.

I like the simple pedia as it is and don't like the overcrowded button pedia where you hardly find anything, but I will have a look or at least, look for screenshots of it. if it's better, why shouldn't I ask for it!

World builder interface: Ha, this is something I didn't touch. This IS possible: do you have a link?
Click to expand...

Before you dismiss BUG/BAT or BBAI, perhaps you should give Her Lemonyness a shout and compare notes. I think you may be pleasently surprised.

RI 'pedia; easy, just check out their thread. The 'pedia is part of RI's charm.

WB; I think the interface is part of Platy's work, he has a dedicated thread as well for his work.
 
Its called Platy's world builder. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491837. That thing is a work of genius.

I argee with some of bugs Icons taking up too much space. I never used them either (The unit stack stuff). I just liked what it did for the info screens like city and military advisers. But what they did with the civopedia did make it more easy to navigate in the sense that there were certain screens that one could go from units to upgrades to promotions in like 3 clicks. Every subject is also sorted by civ depending on what civ is in game or not. If it was to conflict with yours then screw it. It was my understanding that BAT made it so generic units like archers or axemen for instance, looked different from civ to civ. I may be wrong on that.
 
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