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Pie's Ancient Europe

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Ancient Europe' started by pie_at, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. Pef

    Pef Chieftain

    Joined:
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    erm , no dacian civ on ancient europe ?

    they are said(ie Herodot) to have had 200k men army by 100 BC (about 40 legions), Rome was even paying them tribute.
    it took the Romans 200 years to deal with them , around 106 AD , Emperor Trajan won the second Dacian War , conquering Dacian capital - Sarmizegetusa .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dacian_cities , basically all east-european locii ending with -dava.
     
  2. Myri

    Myri Chieftain

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    Very nice mod but some problems:

    - celtic myths, holy city: none (not always)
    - ai offers ressources for free (not just useless crab)
    - ai offers open borders and gets pleased, friendly very fast, only way to get attacked is if you don't open borders
    - slaves should be more useful, only use them to add instant production
    - can research a lot of merc troops but build none of them
    - ai does not care about health and gets leper very often
    - ai builds stupid attack stacks: 1 warrior, 2 rams, 2 druids
    - work boats are scouts (at least greek and roman, without sailing)
    - animals know borders (only enter if they attack)
    - sea peoples don't unload troops
    - ai does not trade rye if you have wheat
    - ai often has 3 or 4 cities but no palace

    bye Myri
     
  3. Myri

    Myri Chieftain

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    I had a stack of 4 loosing health.

    bye Myri
     
  4. pie_at

    pie_at PAE-Let's play ancient :)

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    1. ok, I will have a look. I just wanted some natural borders (danube). and when I draw the caspian sea a bit smaller, I'll have to put more Tundra to south. -> settle ground reasons. This was all intended.

    2. Hm. I had to decide between Dacian and Vandals. Vandals had a more dramatical history for the romans! And instead of the Huns... hm.. -> no. ;)
    Reason: A very high priority for me and this mod is that it has to work at MACs. So a 18 CIVs dll only. Sorry.

    England has to be settled from the continent. If you find out that the celts have there 4000 BC, then I will change. ;)

    3. I need marathon speed for my 300 BC Scenario (@work) -> where celts do have settled england too ;)

    4. hm. Brennus was stong in early times. Wait till classical era. He won't get stronger units (except swordsman very much later).

    5. thanks!! good idea! I didn't know that this will work. I will implement and try it. thx!

    thank you very much for your productive criticism!
     
  5. pie_at

    pie_at PAE-Let's play ancient :)

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    If I could, I would do. but there are only 18 CIVs possible (maximum standard for MAC Users). that's more important for me. And if there would be enough space, I'd have put Spartians as a CIV too.. and Thebians and Etruscians and Partians and and and....

    I set priorities and compared their importance to history. And for me, the Vandals and Huns changed history much more then the Dacians. Sorry for that. :(
     
  6. pie_at

    pie_at PAE-Let's play ancient :)

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    - celtic myths, holy city: none (not always)
    >> polytheistic religions do not have a holy city. why should they have?

    - ai offers ressources for free (not just useless crab)
    >> it's untouched - :confused:

    - ai offers open borders and gets pleased, friendly very fast, only way to get attacked is if you don't open borders
    >> a problem?

    - slaves should be more useful, only use them to add instant production
    >> read the Mod Concepts in Civilopedia

    - can research a lot of merc troops but build none of them
    >> read the Mod Concepts in Civilopedia

    - ai does not care about health and gets leper very often
    >> f** ancient times :D

    - ai builds stupid attack stacks: 1 warrior, 2 rams, 2 druids
    >> wait some time. you will see the AI will change their stacks :D

    - work boats are scouts (at least greek and roman, without sailing)
    >> hm. I do not believe. screenshot?

    - animals know borders (only enter if they attack)
    >> you mean they don't know borders (can't discern neutral with cultural plots) :D
    >> is this realistic or not?

    - sea peoples don't unload troops
    >> they do, but they don't when there is nothing to burn down. they'll unload on cultural plots

    - ai does not trade rye if you have wheat
    >> puh. that's too specific as the resources for free. untouched by me.

    - ai often has 3 or 4 cities but no palace
    >> thx, I'll give the palace more AI-WEIGHT.

    - I had a stack of 4 loosing health.
    >> you are standing on a swamp plot? I can't believe if you don't or there aren't other units on a plot.
     
  7. Keinpferd

    Keinpferd Chieftain

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    1. Like you, I tend to be unhappy with those parts of a map that are in close proximity of where I'm from. I think Uncopain got a lot of credit for his depiction of the balkans, maybe you know that map. In defense of Pie, I'd like to look at the map much more as a fun battleground. It often follows very practical reasons (preventing the Macedons to settle Hungary, and so forth), sometimes offering tactical narrows like the gorge that the Danube passes through on the way to the Black Sea. If there was like 10% more space, only, I'm sure Pie would be able to make the map more accurate and prettier, too. But then, in late game, some people don't want an oversized map with even one f more city to deal with.

    2. The Dakians should be in. But who do you kick out? Because I'm one of the Mac users that can't play mods with more than 18 civs… (Don't get any ideas Pie!:please:) If there was a way to program a steady flow of barbarians acting as Huns (named Huns, possible?), that could be an option. Cause by the time the Huns should take on their historical role, in all of my games they have become forgotten vassals of one of the bigger powers for long.

    3. Interesting, how do you do that? When I played on Immortal, Perikles founded Christianity around 300 B.C.. Where exactly do I change the research values to 150 (at epic, at marathon)?


    Here is a redesign of Pelponnesos and Crete. Very little change in resources, like the silver mines at Laureon replacing gold:

    " align="" border="0" />
     
  8. vladstrutzu

    vladstrutzu Chieftain

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    The map:

    Danube and Carpathians N some 2 tiles
    Carpathians at least 2 grasslands N of Danube
    Danube Delta S some 2-3 tiles

    Dacians: Kick Numidia - there are well enough represented as the Berbers and keeping a civ just for the quick and mostly unimportant Jugurthine War with the romans is a bit strange. At leas the dacians kicked some serios roman ass before 105 AD

    Edit in notepad ...\Mods\PieAncientEurope\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml

    Change <iResearchPercent>100</iResearchPercent> to <iResearchPercent>150</iResearchPercent> for the specific speed ;)

    PS: the "150" value I haven't fully tested yet... (i'm in 500 BC but it seems a good speed)
     
  9. markoffit

    markoffit Chieftain

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  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't know. The stats may be messed up or something. 5% per turn is actually higher than you think. My slaves were dying within one to two turns of building an improvement with messages like "guard killed him" or "he ran away". It would be nice to use them for initial improvements and then settle or rush prod. Maybe an adjustment to a much lower probability if say you fortify a warrior or some other military unit on the same tile the slave is working, i.e., he is actually guarded. That'll keep the little bugger from running off.

    Granted, I probably shouldn't be playing this on Noble put tend to play out a new mod first at that level. Regardless, I've teched pretty fast and popped lots of techs from huts. I could literally wipe out the world right now with mass Gallic warriors. I suggest significantly lowering the probability of popping techs from huts or eliminating the possibility. Gold and/or scouts would be plenty nice, especially gold for improvements.
     
  11. Pef

    Pef Chieftain

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    i normally play without huts , there is little strategy into collecting 100 huts and bypassing 3000 years of research.

    there should be alot more events though , this way every game would have a different civ get the upper hand.
     
  12. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    Playing Rome on the standard map. No trade routes ever!!! with open borders with almost everyone and even in the late 500BC , is there some thing I need to do or is that intended? if so why would I have trade post to build than?
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    You are someone needs to build the Silk Road project to enable trade routes.
     
  14. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    personaly I let someone else build it since there is no benifit to me for all the hammers spent
     
  15. US_of_Alaska

    US_of_Alaska Chieftain

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    Excellent mod, pie. I have been wanting an ancient scenario mod for a long while. I really am enjoying this mod and the only things that seem to be wrong for me (as i am not a history or geography professor) are the quotes and Sid's Tips, which are both really low priority. Thanks again for a brilliant mod.
     
  16. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    I knew about the silk road and had the same reasoning as DH, the weird thing is that the trade routes were still absent when the SR was built some where. Now if I exit the game and reload trades routes appears!!! you need to quit and relaod
     
  17. Taneda Santôka

    Taneda Santôka Chieftain

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    Pie, you're mod is the best I've played ! It works without any problem, it's perfectly stable, it's complex and elaborated and really fun. Plus, the beginning of the game is well designed and there are no silly unrealistic over expansions by primitive civs.
    But please, DON'T CHANGE the map. Even if people complain and even if it does have some inaccuracies, the way it's designed, with choke-points and natural borders, it's the best map I've played. Only minor grief is the Makedonian starting position in the middle of the Balkans and called Pella : pretty far away.

    Anyway, awesome. :)
     
  18. Keinpferd

    Keinpferd Chieftain

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    Thanks, vladstruzu! How easy. But the research speed on Deity with your different setting is still lightning fast, got faster in fact, this time Christianity started in 412 B.C.. There's no doubt that the change to 150 was in full effect, since it took the Romans 9 turns to research mysticism instead of 7, as their first tech.
     
  19. vladstrutzu

    vladstrutzu Chieftain

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    I know :)

    You can easily check if it works by looking at how many :science: a specific tech needs. ;)

    PS: oh.. I play with "No Technology brokering" so it's a little slower... try 200.
     
  20. pie_at

    pie_at PAE-Let's play ancient :)

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    hi all: sorry for that delay, lots of work u know.
    @keinpferd: no, I won't change the greek peninsula like this, because Athen would become too weak to stand the test of time.
    @vladstrutzu: I will look forward to change some tiles to your arguments but I will still let the natural borders similar to this version.

    @topic Dacians: hm... I will not throw Numidians out because they had a more important role than the Dacians: only with their help, Carthage could fall! Just imagine Carthage wouldn't have fallen into roman hands! A (Dacian) province more or less ... And you say Dacians must get in, what will say another player? Celtiberians? Lydians? etc. this will never have an end...
    BUT, I am a very considerate guy and want to make the best possible. Keinpferd's idea to make the Huns a barbarian tribe, I do really like that! So, I could (although it's couped with work) put a new CIV into this mod. But, remember... Dacians are between Vandals and Macdonians: VERY less space!

    @markoffit: You're right when you say Delphi was a religious important location. That's because they can get the Oracle that easy. CIV's system for holy cities is, that you earn +1 gold for each city with its religion. Please tell me: how could it be, that 2500 BC (money had not been invented yet, maybe shells and other stuff) an over 1000 miles far away city, spend one gold to your treasury per turn?
    Very unrealistic.
    BUT, it could be realistic in the classical era, the map is explored, roads are built, ships are moving along the sea - that I could put the Holy Shrine (for greek religion only, I'd say) into the classical time. What about TECH Policy of alliances (900 BC) or Philosophy (600 BC). If this is a compromise, you can choose a tech and give me a good reason for that ;).

    @lymond: yeah, the dying slaves get 4% instead of 5% prob.
    and you're lucky. I just get scouts and no techs with huts. ;(

    @hannibal: for your first trade route you'll need a trading post. trading post can only be built when anybody has built the silk road project (for indirect trading). if you don't want to wait so long, you can build merchants (for direct trading). later on you'll get up to 4 trade routes per city.
    ah.. and about your restart: don't have a clue

    @alaska: read over the old Sid tips, I would not have uploaded the mod, when such a thing is important. too much work for that little bit of spare time I have. and thank you very, very much for your compliment, I am very glad, this mod pays off.

    @taneda: thx chief. you make me happy. ;) Yes, I was once thinking about this city named Pella, because it is too far away from the sea. But the map causes to lower some facts. sorry.

    @Keinpferd and vlad: I will change the research-% in the handicap-XML file. ;) thanks.

    so. I hope I did't forget someone's post. I wish you lots of pleasure during playing this mod....
     

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