Pie's Ancient Europe

[pie_at]

The longboat will be upgradeable with galleys in the next release.

A user in the german forum (Thorgal) found the reason of the missing entry of hanging gardens in your building list. The city must be placed next to a river. (I let this xml-tag (bRiver) untouched from the original CIV)

 

[ono-neko]

Thank you, Pie, for the two issues. I guess it makes sense that hanging gardens need to be next to river (though having river tile, instead of city must be next to river, could work too, if it's possible to implement to give more relaxed requirement), after all it uses a lot of water to waters all the plants. In either case, it would be nice if this requirement is mentioned somewhere either in civipedia, or list of the effects.

 

[ono-neko]

Can we have the chance of plague outbreak, or being dragged from one place to another to be lessened? It's kind of hard to play the game, when the plague keeps dragging on without end from one place to another. I keep my empire healthy all the time, but AI don't know how to do it. Every game I play, half way though, the world always plunge into never-ending plague-fest. I know plague is inevitable fact in the ancient time, but I don't think it's a never-ending outbreak throughout all the known world. It should be able to be prevented being dragged in or out by closing borders.

 

[pie_at]

no, I won't let the plague gets stopped by canceling open borders. but in the next release, I will try to implement some way to tell the AI, not to get too unhealthy... it is one point of my big list...

 

[ono-neko]

How about less chance of plague spreading? I noticed that it is 20% chance of spreading right now. How about around 10%-15%? Maybe with the next release when AI knows how to keep a city healthy, plague will not be as catastrophic as it is right now.

 

[ono-neko]

Pie_at, I checked the file "CIV4UnitInfos.xml", and noted that the "UNIT_HORSE" has "<Advisor>NONE</Advisor>". Could it be because that's set to "NONE"? My guess is that it should be Military. I tried to reproduce it from old save, but now the game is suggesting different unit to be built, so I couldn't check if changing it would fix it. I've changed it in my copy. I'll let you know if it fixes it the next time my advisor suggest me to build horses again.

Hm... It looks like it does not fix it, now it says "Recommended ()" without nothing in the brackets. I wonder if there's something else needed to be changed. Perhaps someone else know better about this? I'll check around.

 

[pie_at]

But unhealthiness and plagues had been a main factor in all times! .... I will think about it...

 

[ono-neko]

Hm... It looks like it does not fix it, now it says "Recommended ()" without nothing in the brackets. I wonder if there's something else needed to be changed. Perhaps someone else know better about this? I'll check around.

Hm...now, it is showing "Military" correctly for the recommendation. Odd... I guess it did it after all...

For the plague, it doesn't have to be a significant change. I am guessing if your changes to AI works, then there probably won't be a constant plague fest in the whole world. It's just hard to do anything when all your cities are affected by plague constantly, especially discouraging when you are suppose to be the most healthy nation in the known world.

 

[Red Boxer]

But unhealthiness and plagues had been a main factor in all times! .... I will think about it...

He just wants it to be a little more managed. Teaching the AI to keep their cities healthy will definitely help fix it in someways, but right now it spreads and just constantly rolls back and forth across the map.

 

[pie_at]

yes, I think so too.

 

[Red Boxer]

Getting that 'Waiting for other civs' error. I really want to invade Iberia.

 

[EmperorValacar]

atm i'm playing as rome and jeez is it hard to expand(part of the fun). 500 BC i have the italian pennisula and the southern coast of france and the dalmatian coast along with a city where delphi is. Stupid mediolanium coverted to the gauls 3 times i burned it down out of the spite the lasttime and rebuilt it. Only question is why do legions get a combat disadvantage in cities. Fightin a block of legionnaires packed on a city street where the gladius comes into it's own doesnt seem like a disadvantage. Still loads of fun nonetheless.

 

[ono-neko]

I had similar thing happpened. One of my border city rebelling and converted to the barbarian 3 times. Then, after recaptured the third time, I make sure it does not go over 4 pops. I learned the lesson, the hard way, that it is better to keep cities that are 10 tiles (or more) away from capitals at 4 pops or under. Higher than 4 pops will give the city the chance of rebelling to nearest neighbor or former nation. Of course even if the city is in within 10 tiles, if it was conquered, you want to keep it at 4 pops or under as well.

I think pie's argument is that, it is hard for the legionnaires to use their typical tactic in the city streets due to lack of space.

Wait until you have to face the plague. No ammout of legionnaires would be able to defeat that foe

 

[EmperorValacar]

I had similar thing happpened. One of my border city rebelling and converted to the barbarian 3 times. Then, after recaptured the third time, I make sure it does not go over 4 pops. I learned the lesson, the hard way, that it is better to keep cities that are 10 tiles (or more) away from capitals at 4 pops or under. Higher than 4 pops will give the city the chance of rebelling to nearest neighbor or former nation. Of course even if the city is in within 10 tiles, if it was conquered, you want to keep it at 4 pops or under as well.

I think pie's argument is that, it is hard for the legionnaires to use their typical tactic in the city streets due to lack of space.

Wait until you have to face the plague. No ammout of legionnaires would be able to defeat that foe

still early game and i've been nailed by it twice already haha, sucks but it nails my enemies just as much as me.

 

[ono-neko]

Getting that 'Waiting for other civs' error. I really want to invade Iberia.

I tried to play it out, but right after I clicked end turn, it went into "Waiting for other civilizations..." I even waited for half hour to see if it was just a long turn, but apparently it never ended. I am guessing something must have caused it. The last thing I saw in the game log was:

A slave refuses to slave labor and is swearing eternal fidelity to Christianity.

I wonder if that has anything to do with what I think is an infinity loop... Hope pie has an idea what's going on.

 

[pie_at]

Save: I am sorry, it hangs during the egypt turn and I have no clue why.
Try to load an autosave some turns before.

Legions in cities: A legionary in a city has the same advantages like a normal shortswordsman. in such small streets hoplits and the phalanx formation are more effective.
otherwise: you can easily get hurt from above... so city fights are completely different!

And yes, the plague will be reduced in the next release....

 

[Red Boxer]

I had initially loaded it from an autosave (after it crashed the first time), but don't have any at this point.

Formation fighting doesn't lend itself to urban warfare, no matter who is doing it. I don't think the legions deserve a penalty more than anyone else.

I'd say the same is true of their forest penalties. It would be more accurate to give bonuses to the Northern tribes they were facing (not necessarily in the form of promotions, though), than it would be to penalize the Legions.

 

[pie_at]

hm. It must. Think of the imperial legionaries with ST 8 ! they would become invincible.
it would be another thing, if I had three different kinds of swordsmen. ST 6 - 7 - 8. etc...
with the penalty, they are asstrong as normal shortsworsman of ST 6.

 

[EmperorValacar]

eh now that i think about it i suppose the city negative modifier is deserved. I know the forest definately was(teutoberg forest). And the roman legions did have extensive auxiliary cohorts <.<

 

[Red Boxer]

Teutoberg's biggest problem (for the Romans) wasn't the forest. There were a host of massive problems that lead to the battle going the way it did. One major engagement lost in the woods should not necessitate such a massive penalty coupled with the bonus one gets for fighting (defending, or perhaps attacking with the right promotions) in the woods. What about the other major factors that lead to the defeat of the Romans? Why not pick a truly consistent weak spot for the Legions in making it harder for them to deal with (heavy) cavalry?

@pie: The newer units should be stronger, that's the point. Better training, equipment, command that is all built into that ST #. The Legions in their various forms should be the kings of the battlefield for a while, just like they were. Right now I only build a few legions (usually as I get generals for them), with their big penalties and minor upkeep, I am better served with hordes of shortswordsmen.