[GS] Pillage Yield in GS

[Lily_Lancer]

It seems that in GS pillage yield scale with science and culture development as the district cost does. Which means late game pillage may yield as much as 500 science/culture , or 1,000 gold (or even 1,400 with things like seaside resort) per pillage, if you use the double pillage card.

So why do you use Galileo or Darwin to gain science, a knight can gain much more science, by plundering enemy mine, wonderful and nice

 

[King Abbas]

Maybe a free technology of his era would be a better Great Scientist bouns?

 

[SxSnts9]

Yes I think that is going to be wayyyy too strong. Especially since it's so easy to go late game raiding against the AI once you have cavalry and/or tanks. We'll see though.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

A little disappointed to see this change.
But if it is related to the science/culture progress of the pillaged player, rather than the attacker, then it is not that unacceptable.

 

[Vandlys]

So why do you use Galileo or Darwin to gain science, a knight can gain much more science, by plundering enemy mine, wonderful and nice

There is an option to the game where you don't wage war ; ) So, that's an answer for you already : )

 

[kaspergm]

A little disappointed to see this change.
But if it is related to the science/culture progress of the pillaged player, rather than the attacker, then it is not that unacceptable.

Not exactly sure the game needed this either, at least not to such a bit extent as reported in the op. It's not exactly like going flat-out war was a losing strategy as it was. But I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

 

[Archon_Wing]

lol so what's to stop people from flooding with like scouts? Even if you lose most of them, as long as you get a few pillages off, you're good.

We need more war obv.

In all seriousness, it should scale more reasonably. Not like chops *ahem

 

[Disgustipated]

A little bonus is all that was needed, this is far too strong. There are better ways they could have buffed Norway. And this really isn't a buff for them anyways. Berzerkers are still too vulnerable to crossbowman to use for serious pillaging, not to mention they are too slow getting out of enemy territory.

 

[Pietato]

I hope the cards were removed.

 

[Hans Castorp]

What is the basis for the figures you give, Lily Lancer? What we saw in the Livestream was yields of 93 for pillaging Holy Sites and Campuses, and 145 gold for, if memory serves, an aqueduct. This was the Industrial era. Even allowing for further scaling in the three eras ahead of this, 500 science seems a stretch.

 

[Metecury]

The mechanic is fine, there is a very simple solution for those who are afraid it can be abused: don't abuse it. Very simple isn't it?

 

[Ziad]

I assume pillaging generates grievances.

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

I hope the cards were removed.

I saw somewhere (maybe here or twitter) people saying that they had the Raid card on in the livestream, so those were already showing the doubled values. Don't know if that has been confirmed or not. If those values were with the Raid card, it seems very strong but not totally broken.

I like the idea of making pillaging more useful late game, but any good player will definitely be able to abuse it against the AI. I think it opens up some interesting strategies/tactics in multiplayer though. But as others have noted, it could be abused if 2 players decided to have a "fake" war and just repeatedly pillage and repair each others' improvements.

 

[Kibikus]

I'm not too worried. If it turns out that pillaging rewards are too high, they'll tone them down in a future patch. At least it's encouraging that they are having a look at how people are playing the game and seeing that pillaging is a mechanism that is pretty underwhelming. And if not, a mod will probably be able to adjust them properly.

From what I understood, they're mostly going to scale them up as the game progresses, so that the rewards keep up with say science and culture costs. Right now 25 science in the second half of the game is not that relevant.

 

[Draco84]

I assume pillaging generates grievances.

I'm wouldn't assume that, but I think pillaging a tile should, much less than razing a city, but still a noticeable amount. Personally I would be pretty angry if someone came in and burned all my farms and destroyed my mines.

Regarding the scaling, I think they should tone down the values at the start of the game, then scale through the game. 25 science on turn 10 is way more valuable to me than 100 on turn 150. burning farms should probably be cut in half as well, having my entire army at full health after each conquest due to all the farms the AI builds seems overpowered.

Hopefully the pillage rates and starting points are easily mod-able. Without too much thought put into this, I would start the game off at 10 science per tile, + 1 per 2 turns at default speed, so on standard speed turn 20 will provide 20 science, turn 500 (last turn) gives 260 science (not insignificant, but also not going to win you a game) other yields would adjust at the usual speed. Note marathon will obviously have much higher yields end game, but costs should also scale with it, same with quick/online.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I'm not too worried. If it turns out that pillaging rewards are too high, they'll tone them down in a future patch. At least it's encouraging that they are having a look at how people are playing the game and seeing that pillaging is a mechanism that is pretty underwhelming. And if not, a mod will probably be able to adjust them properly.

From what I understood, they're mostly going to scale them up as the game progresses, so that the rewards keep up with say science and culture costs. Right now 25 science in the second half of the game is not that relevant.

Remember the neighborhood gold thing? I can usually get ~20,000 neighborhood gold in the previous patch. And many people complain that this is imbalanced.

Then the developers made a change, they doubled the neighborhood gold! Now at least my games, are half about researching quick to neighborhoods, and gold.

Remember the chop thing? Chopping was the main source of production in vanilla games. And many people complain that this is imbalanced.

Then the developers made a change, they maintain the already-imbalanced chop yield, and introduced Magnus to add a further +50% on top of it! Now at least my games, are half about quick getting Magnus, and chop chop chop.

Remember the goddess of harvest thing? Goddest of harvest outperforms the sum of all other pathenons in vanilla games. And many people complain that this is imbalanced.

Then the developers made a change, they introduced Monumentalism and Magnus! Making this pathenon much more imbalanced! (Though players can seldom get it since it is the 1st choice of AI pathenon.)

What the developers do are not balancing the game, instead, they make the strong stronger, and the weak more useless.

I expect GS is all about pillage.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I expect GS is all about pillage.

I suspect that with the pillaging change, you can now skip building districts entirely.

The scaling is set to 1/4th of a tech / civic per pillage, which should be sufficient to support an all military build production, skipping any sort of civilian production other than those associated with getting eurekas and inspirations.

It's always been preferable to avoid taking enemy cities until you've pillaged all of their improvements. Now you'll want to pillage all of the districts and buildings before capturing their cities, too. The gains from pillaging them should outstrip their yield capacity from capturing them intact.

As Archon Wing pointed out above, Scouts have been buffed by this change, crimped only by the introduction of the new Medieval era upgrade, which makes them more expensive to pump out. Light Cavalry's also been buffed.

 

[The googles do nothing]

I expect GS is all about pillage.

There should be malus for each action you listed. If you science for chopping or tourism for pillaging it would at least be about a choice. Having a tourism penalty makes more sense then increasing the pillage yield. Nobody goes on vacation to places that have terrorism or wars recently.

But as discussed elsewhere, Firaxis doesn't think malus make the game enjoyable.

 

[darkace77450]

The mechanic is fine, there is a very simple solution for those who are afraid it can be abused: don't abuse it. Very simple isn't it?

This isn't some exploit or bug you're asking players to eschew. If the benefits of pillaging are disproportionately good then the onus is on the developers to balance their game.

I assume pillaging generates grievances.

The war itself should generate the grievance. Further penalizing players for pillaging a tile or district would be akin to penalizing them for killing a unit or plundering a trade route.

 

[wantedbigboss]

the pillaging game will change the peaceful player into warmonger。the district will become worthless,the pillaging game enlarge the war benefits。we don't need build the canal and we can finish the game.i don’t like R&F because of chopping and magnus.maybe the pillaging will destroy GS in a way。