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Pillar of chains: what does it do?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by fjordan, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. fjordan

    fjordan Chieftain

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    I'm a bit puzzled by the descriptions. Obviously, unlike the Calabim Manor it provides 1 :hammers: only for unhappy above the happy cap. So that is not too usefull. But what does the "negates effect from civic anger" mean? I do not see any change in unhappy citizens. Or is is something from the Civis screen? I think I read somewhere there is a synergy with the Calabim but at the moment I don't see it.
     
  2. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Chieftain

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    Wrong about the hammer boost. It works exactly like the governor's manor one.

    Some civics, like caste system, have an unhappiness penalty. The pillar of chains kills those.
     
  3. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Doesn't it also prevent anger from not running Republic?
     
  4. steampunk1880

    steampunk1880 Chieftain

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    I thought that meant if everyone around you has republic, your citizens wont be clamoring for it.
     
  5. fjordan

    fjordan Chieftain

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    Thanks for the answer. However, in the game I am currently playing as the Calabim I am only getting the hammer bonus once (yes, I did look at the actual hammer accumulation, not the display). So maybe they are not cumulative? But I don't get any bonus in the cities without a manor. So either you are wrong or it is bugged.

    Not a very shine wonder as it is, which may even cost you because of the lessened anger for caste and war. Luckily I have vampires to take care of that. :)
     
  6. readercolin

    readercolin Chieftain

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    No, the bonus doesn't stack with govenor's manors. This allows other civs to get the effects of govenors manors, but for the Calibam, it pretty much does nothing (yes, there is the civic anger thing, but when did they really care about that?)

    -Colin
     
  7. fjordan

    fjordan Chieftain

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    Well it doesn't give me the bonus if I have no manor so I will have to test this with another civ before I am fully convinced. Also, I just confirmed in my game that I do get one :hammers: for every unhappy citizen above the happy cap as I stated in my opening post.

    If it does prevent republic unhappy that could make it a good wonder though. In my last games I usually had at least 3 :mad: in late game so that's nothing to sneeze at.

    But no synergy with Calabim then, you would rather have lots of :) and lots of :mad: at the same time.
     
  8. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    ... (one more time) with a silver stake and fingers crossed:

    • Start a game as the Calabim and settle your city. Go into the city detail screen and set your citizen to work a tile with no :hammers: output. You will see that you have 2 :hammers: production. (One from city center and one from palace.)

    • Enter Worldbuilder. Give yourself Taxation. Exit Worldbuilder and revolt to Caste System. Advance turns until the revolt ends.

    • In your city detail screen you will now see an extra :mad:, labeled "We long for the open country!" (caused by Caste System). Enter Worldbuilder and place the Pillar of Chains in your capital. Exit Worldbuilder and advance to the next turn.

    • In your city detail screen you will see that the :mad: from Caste System has not been removed. Pillar of Chains does not remove all Civic unhappiness penalties, it only removes the penalty imposed when other civs follow Republic and you do not. You will note that your production has increased to 4 :hammers:: your original 2 :hammers: + 2 :hammers: for 2 :mad:. Note that there are no unhappy citizens in the city, so the :hammers: bonus from Pillar of Chains is from the :mad: faces, not from unhappy citizens. Also note that if you mouse-over the "4 :hammers:" to see the production breakdown you will see this:

    The failure to display the :hammers: from the Pillar of Chains is a text error, and contributes to the misconceptions about how (and if) it works. If you doubt the actual amount of production being generated then start building a Palisade and advance a turn. Check the build progress and you will note that 4 :hammers: have been added to the Palisade in that one turn.

    • Next, enter Worldbuilder and add a Governor's Manor to your capital. This will add an additional :mad: ("Some buildings are upsetting us!"), from the Manor itself. Note that your production now reads 5 :hammers:; 2 base + 3 from 3 :mad:. If the Pillar of Chains and the Governor's Manor stacked their effects it would read 8 :hammers:, and so you can see that they do not stack.

    • Advance turns until you are elegible for another revolution. Enter Worldbuilder again and give yourself Way of the Wicked, then increase the size of your capital to 20. Exit Worldbuilder and revolt to Slavery, then advance turns until the revolt ends. Whip a Tax Office to completion, advance a turn, then whip a Palasade to completion. Enter Worldbuilder and set your capital's population to 2. Start a Breeding Pit and advance a turn (to remove the overflow production from the production detail). You should now have 6 :mad: in your city and only 5 :), and thus one unhappy citizen. Your production should read 8 :hammers:, and the detail should show:

    Note that the expected amount of production is 2 base + 6 from :mad: = 8 :hammers:, as indicated. The detail still fails to display the :hammers: from :mad:, but to further complicate matters now shows 1 :hammers: from unhappy population. Note that the production yield is not 9, so the "extra" production from the unhappy population is illusory - a confusing text error that helps to perpetuate the myth that unhappy population is somehow involved in the production bonus of the Pillar of Chains and Governor's Manors.

    • Finally, enter Worldbuilder and remove the Pillar of Chains from your capital. Note that production remains 8, and so you can see that the Governor's Mannor is providing the same production increase as the Pillar of Chains, and again confirm that they do not stack.
     
  9. iamdanthemansta

    iamdanthemansta Edward of Woodstock

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    Ah thanks Emptiness for the explanation I was wondering exactly how both of those worked. My only question now is Pillar of Chains is a World Wonder so does it only effect the city it's built in or every city of the civ that builds it?
     
  10. xalien

    xalien Chieftain

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    Hammer bonus is only for 1 city, civic anger is for entire civ.
     
  11. fjordan

    fjordan Chieftain

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    Thanks Emptiness for the detailed explanation. I must confess I was confused too about the scope of the effects (city/civ). But a hammer bonus in the city and nationwide reduced unhappiness is quite good, only less for the Calabim.
     
  12. Veqryn

    Veqryn Chieftain

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    so this means that the manor and pillar are amazing production boosters for every civ...
    i mean, literally every population point added is one extra hammer with this wonder/building...
     
  13. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Chieftain

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    Yes. And better than that if you use Slavery or Feast on the cities pop you get 1 hammer for the unhappiness even though the pop is killed. The pop doesn't even have to be there to give a bonus hammer :eek:

    Making your small cities very unhappy and re-growing fast is a good way to boost their production (perhaps you only have a few really good tiles to work and the rest are less useful) until you reach the happiness limit. So the govenors manor production bonus is really limited by the amount of happiness the city has, not its population.
     
  14. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    Is it a bug that they don't stack? Seems like they should, lorewise, since the Pillar was Flauros' construction, right?
     
  15. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    I assume that they don't stack for balance reasons, although it is also possible that technical limitations or a bug could be responsible. I have made the case elsewhere that there is still plenty of incentive for the Calabim to build the Pillar, although my position is not shared by everyone.
     
  16. Sephi

    Sephi Chieftain

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    the way they are implemented they can not stack, so I would also guess balance reasons.
     
  17. zup

    zup Chieftain

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    Or perhaps it is just an oversight. But do you actually need more production with the Calabim anyway? I have no troubles spamming vampires every turn in the late game in all of my developed cities.
     
  18. iamdanthemansta

    iamdanthemansta Edward of Woodstock

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    There are techs that boost Pillar of Chains output to +2 hammers +1 commerce I think does that mean +2 hammer +1 commerce per unhappy citizen or is it just a small extra bonus for having the building? Also if it provides more hammers than the mansion does it take over? Thanks.
     
  19. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    There are no techs that increase the output of Pillar of Chains. You're thinking of Snake Pillar, which is what grain resources (Wheat, Corn, Rice) become when their tile shifts to hell terrain. Way of the Wicked and Infernal Pact each increase the tile yield from Snake Pillars.
     
  20. iamdanthemansta

    iamdanthemansta Edward of Woodstock

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    Ah you're right thank you
     

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