Pinochet Common Misconceptions

[Thorgalaeg]

That is much more believable.

Human Rights Watch take on the topic:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/11/26/cuba-fidel-castros-record-repression

Death penalty in Cuba:
https://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=cuba

0 death penalties since 2003 according to amnesty international.

 

[JohannaK]

At long last! Someone who can appreciate with me the benevolence of those saviour generals who snatched the soul of the nation from the rabid jaws of cyptofascist communistic so-called democratic governments.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Y tiene razón paquito rana. Con él nadie se quejaba.

 

[Kyriakos]

At long last! Someone who can appreciate with me the benevolence of those saviour generals who snatched the soul of the nation from the rabid jaws of cyptofascist communistic so-called democratic governments.

Franco<Franjo

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Been investigating a bit more on Cuba genocide:

Political executions
Various estimates have been made in order to ascertain the number of political executions carried out on behalf of the Cuban government since the revolution. Within the first two months of the 1959, Castro's government performed more than 300 executions of Batista officials,[19] with Latin American historian Thomas E. Skidmore says that there had been 550 executions in the first six months of 1959.[20] In an April 1961 UPI story, the agency stated that about "700 have died before Castro's firing squads" between 1959 and 1961.[21]The World Handbook of Political and Social Indicators ascertained that there had been 2,113 political executions between the years 1958–67,[20] while British historian Hugh Thomas, stated in his study Cuba or the pursuit of freedom[22] that "perhaps" 5,000 executions had taken place by 1970.[20] According to Amnesty International, the total number of death sentences issued from 1959–87 was 237, of which all but 21 were actually carried out.[23] The anti-Castro Archivo Cuba estimates that 4,000 people were executed in Cuba between 1959 and 2016.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

I will keep the number from Amnesty International. You can take the one you like more. In any case even anti-Castrist cant strecht numbers beyond 4000 in 50 years.

 

[Kyriakos]

Been investigating a bit more on Cuba genocide:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

I will keep the one from Amnesty International. You can take the one you like more. In any case even anti-Castrist cant strecht numbers beyond 4000 in 50 years.

4000 is somewhat close to 150.000

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Franco<Franjo

The Captain of the Love Boat?

 

[Kyriakos]

The Captain of the Love Boat?

And Love Croatia ^^

 

[Yeekim]

I was expecting something from some minimally respectable sources. UN, Human Rights Watch or something like that. You first link leads to an article written by a rabid anti-communist american, member of the Cato institute, an ultraliberal think tank. With numbers extracted of places like museum of the communism, the black book of the communism and so on... It is like asking Allende widow about Pinochet crimes.

Was a bit baffled about those numbers myself, but I didn't have time to investigate more. Thank you for context.

Been investigating a bit more on Cuba genocide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

I will keep the number from Amnesty International. You can take the one you like more. In any case even anti-Castrist cant strecht numbers beyond 4000 in 50 years.

Not so sure about that last bit.
Some more info here:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm

It is of course also a question what to count. Confirmed death sentences? Extrajudicial killings? Guerillas killed in combat? Cuban soldiers died abroad? Drowned rafters?
With Castro's regime still firmly in power, any proper investigation is also hardly possible - unlike in Chile...

As for that number from Amnesty, the book isn't publicly available, but seems to be targeted against death penalty as such in general. From the very limited excerpt available from google.books it seems they were simply referencing a statistic provided by official Cuban sources, so it should definitely not be viewed as their own estmation of regime's victims.
Anyway, this thread isn't about Cuba. I'm also content to dial back my initial surprise and conclude that Pinochet was not remarkably less murderous than Castro.
May they both **** each other in hell.

 

[RomanKing]

But I admit I didn't know the estimated number of victims of Pinochet's regime.
3,000 over about 2 decades in a country of nearly 18 million sounds surprisingly low, tbh. Would have guessed at least five digits myself.
I mean, estimates for Cuba (a country of ~11 million) over about 3 decades range between 35,000 and 141,000...

That's because communists are tyrannical totalitarian savages. It's the same pattern every place where they have usurped power.

Anyway, this thread isn't about Cuba. I'm also content to dial back my initial surprise and conclude that Pinochet was not remarkably less murderous than Castro.
May they both **** each other in hell.

How can any rational thinking person justify such a willfully ignorant statement?

When communist fetishists are forced to face the facts they always mislead, obfuscate, and lie. Even quoting your biased statistics from liberal critics and communist boot lickers the left's beloved Castro topped the dead in Chile tenfold by even the most biased of estimates.

Not to mention all of the death and destruction Castro caused funding, arming, and sending communist guerrillas into much of Latin America, which of course the liberal boot lickers gleefully ignore.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

It seems you have your ass full of indisputable facts. Why dont try to research a bit and provide us with some sources instead of the poorly designed posters you have hanging in your room?

Was a bit baffled about those numbers myself, but I didn't have time to investigate more. Thank you for context.

Not so sure about that last bit.
Some more info here:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm

It is of course also a question what to count. Confirmed death sentences? Extrajudicial killings? Guerillas killed in combat? Cuban soldiers died abroad? Drowned rafters?
With Castro's regime still firmly in power, any proper investigation is also hardly possible - unlike in Chile...

As for that number from Amnesty, the book isn't publicly available, but seems to be targeted against death penalty as such in general. From the very limited excerpt available from google.books it seems they were simply referencing a statistic provided by official Cuban sources, so it should definitely not be viewed as their own estmation of regime's victims.
Anyway, this thread isn't about Cuba. I'm also content to dial back my initial surprise and conclude that Pinochet was not remarkably less murderous than Castro.
May they both **** each other in hell.

Fair enough Yeekin, dont know exactly what amnesty international numbers are either. I would expect something around a thousand or two as much, to reach some middlepoint. Not counting balseros or cuban killed in foreign wars (USA regime would have 60,000 victims beetwen 1965 and 1975 then)

 

[aelf]

That's what I call a moderate.

 

[red_elk]

So, for political executions we've got 3000 in Chile for 20 years and ~2000 in Cuba for 50 years (or 4000 according to anti-Castro sources)

 

[RomanKing]

It seems you have your ass full of indisputable facts. Why dont try to research a bit and provide us with some sources instead of the poorly designed posters you have hanging in your room?

Are you suggesting that liberal critics and their pseudo-intellectual elites are not credible sources of information?

I may have to agree with you.

 

[Yeekim]

That's because communists are tyrannical totalitarian savages. It's the same pattern every place where they have usurped power.

Believe me, I don't have any love for communists.

How can any rational thinking person justify such a willfully ignorant statement?

No matter how you slice it, Pinochet was still a murderer, torturer and embezzler. That there are guys who've killed, tortured or stolen even more, does not change that.
His economic policies, however good, do not change that either.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: I do not see this thread going anywhere good anymore - so its now closed.