Plagiarism (?) in the World History Forum

Is plagiarism in the World History Forum wrong?


  • Total voters
    60

7ronin

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Recently I noticed that a poster in the History Forum had copied verbatim parts of many of his (or her) posts from a commonly available reference work. The poster did not provide any attribution for the copied material and it was not placed in quote marks.

I am interested in hearing what the rest of you have to say or feel about this.
 
I think it's dishonest, but I also don't consider this to be a place where "academic standards" apply. I certainly don't think it's right to do such a thing, though.
 
I'd say that there are no universally applicable standards here, given that it's just a place for people to talk. However, the more rigorous the standards you use, the more seriously people will take you. If, for example, you make some wild comment without anything to back it up, that's your prerogative, but don't expect people to believe you. If you want to make a case, give evidence.

The problem with the case you mention is that no-one would actually know that plagiarism had occurred unless, like you, they'd happened to have read the book being plagiarised. It seems to me that the poster in question is actually shooting himself in the foot, to some degree, given that citing the book in question would presumably reinforce his argument. It would, at least, mean he could throw a source at those who disagree with him, rather than rely simply upon assertion. So this sort of plagiarism isn't in the same league as someone who plagiarises in published work, or in work done for a degree, or something like that: the poster isn't benefiting materially, any more than if one were to plagiarise in conversation (if such a thing is possible). But it's a very odd thing to do and strikes me as slightly seedy, if only because the poster gains informal credit (at least on these fora) for ideas and words which are not his own.

So at the end of that ramble, I'm still going to vote for the second option, as it's where my instincts point.
 
Well, I think it is better to give the source, from what you have it, if you post it here verbal. It is plagiarism indeed. However this is only a forum. So it is not a "must be", it should be a (very strong) "should be", as some posters do know little about that.
Perhaps this should be announced more in the rules.

Adler
 
When you do something like this your taking credit and kudos for something you didn't do - that's just not cricket, IMHO, even on an internet forum.
 
I frown heavily on this, but since I can't check every source (yes, I am indeed damn lazy, as can be attested to by many posters! :p)...

Being the mod nominally in charge of History, I'd ask that posters try not to do this and give citations where needed.
 
absolutely it matters!

my prof's at uni used to beat us over the head about this stuff and it was a real serious offense. i had one teacher threaten expulsion if caught (not me of course - just 'in general').

now - i know that this forum is not 'school' or 'academia' or anything. however, i believe that there should be a certain unspoken thing about being honest about what's posted. i mean, if it's not yours, say so damnit!

at the same time - i don't think footnotes and Chicago style citations are necessary. a list or link to a source is always appreciated though (considering that the source is a credible one though).

it doesn't surprise me in the least bit that this kind of crap would occur though. and when you're trained to do research and to express one's self through words, it is wholly unacceptable imho to post info w/out making any type of disclaimer or whatever. it's mickey mouse BS actually...
 
I might mention that I have to teach undergraduates at university, and the one thing which is drummed into us constantly - to a degree you'd really think unnecessary - is that we have to watch out for plagiarism. Anything suspicious must be Googled or referred to someone more senior. Even when I handed in the first set of students' marks, the only thing the department secretary said was, "Did you find any plagiarism?" - as if I had, but forgotten to mention it! It seems odd to me as I don't think anyone mentioned the issue even once when I was an undergraduate. Perhaps it was assumed that we'd be intelligent enough to guess that it's a Bad Thing, although perhaps too it was less of a problem then, since there wasn't this Interweb thingy to make it easier.
 
Although, isn't it possible that the poster is quoting from his/her own work? For instance, Plotinus is a published historian... If I found his texts somewhere else, I would just assume that whatever the name under which they appear is Plotinus' real name and leave it at that.

Is it possible that the other poster you are referring to did the same? Or used whatever he or she put up at Wikipedia or some other source? In the interest of anonymity, I could understand somebody not referencing their own work on an Internet forum...

EDIT: I had missed that it came from a "commonly available reference work" [7ronin, 2006. Board: CFC. Forum: World History. Thread: Plagiarism (?) in the World History Forum. Post: #1]. Then it is highly unlikely to be their own. I change my vote from undecided to the second option.
 
People should have the decency to state where they got the information from rather than claim it as their own.

Having said that some of the older articles I've written I hadn't got into the habit yet of listing sources and now that I'm not inclined to go back and dig up the old sources for my older articles. I don't usually copy entire text though, just read sources, digest and write a summary/analysis in my own words.
 
The source should be indicated... at least mentioned if not linked.

Besides the plagiarism/ copyright arguments... giving the source makes it easier for the reader to do further reading if he or she is so inclined.
 
Who is the poster you refer to by the way 7ronin?
 
pboily said:
No, no, don't tell us. I want to see a Tell Tale Heart type ending.

That's what I was kind of hoping for, but I won't hold my breath. :rolleyes:
My own opinion is that this is just wrong; particularly when it may have been done to make the poster appear smarter, more knowledgeable, or more literate than everyone else.
 
nobody saw me do it!
nobody can prove anything!
(bart simpson, the simpsons. unknown chapter)

it, i believe, is the worst kind of writer that steals someone elses ideas.

this being a NON academic foroum, does not need it to be a hardset rule.
just use a bit of common sense.

if its common knoledge then i guess its ok, but for me i like cross referencing facts and ideas.
 
It would be better to name the person in order that he/she can at least explain themselves rather than leave a cloud over the entire forum.
 
pboily said:
Although, isn't it possible that the poster is quoting from his/her own work? For instance, Plotinus is a published historian... If I found his texts somewhere else, I would just assume that whatever the name under which they appear is Plotinus' real name and leave it at that.

Even when you're quoting yourself you ought to say so. If nothing else, it helps to give a bit of weight to your argument as it gives the impression that rather than simply making this stuff up you've researched it sufficiently well to be allowed to write about it elsewhere. Plus, of course, as you say, there's the chance that people might see the book and not realise it's by the same person, since we all use bizarre pseudonyms here. I have quoted myself on these fora before and always made it clear when doing so, and I've seen other people do the same too.
 
I agree with pretty much everything in this thread that's been said

yes the person should be named because it could have simply been an honest mistake, in which case they should be allowed to defend their name

also yeah, sources should be named. that was one of the most important things taught to me by my History teacher.
 
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