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Planning cIV BTS MTDG III

Discussion in 'Civ4 -ISDG 2012' started by Sommerswerd, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Magno_uy

    Magno_uy Chieftain

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    Spanish team change its Spies vote to ON, no restriccion
     
  2. nabaxo

    nabaxo Chieftain

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    Malmö, Sweden
    Oh wow. Going from OFF to ON just like that. :rotfl:
     
  3. Magno_uy

    Magno_uy Chieftain

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    and? we need to justify each option?
     
  4. plako

    plako Chieftain

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    It seems that things are converging so here are the final settings that somehow could affect to the map:
    Map - MAPMAKER'S CHOICE, something random/special, decent amount of land, not archipelago
    Wrap - TOROIDAL
    Mirrored starts - NO (capital locations are very similar though)
    Fair/balanced starts - YES
    Corporations - ON
    Barbs - ON
    Speed - NORMAL
    Huts - OFF
    Allow all teams pre-optics contact - YES
    Size - Huge (game setting) - In reality something between 80-100 x 40-60
    Difficulty - Emperor

    I won't say anything else about the map until the pick up process is finalized.
     
  5. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Hahah, good one :goodjob:

    This comes also to show how wrong someone can be when trying to guess what others would vote or want and decide instead of them. :)
     
  6. nabaxo

    nabaxo Chieftain

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    No just saying. I thought it was funny. :p
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Thanks again, Plako for your work and your sacrifice of not participating in the game itself, it is highly appreciated.

    I do want to ask though, how starting locations will be decided? I read somewhere about starting locations being numbered on the map and then after the teams leader/civ choices are done, then the admin randomizes and gives to the mapmaker which team goes where? This sounds to me like a good way this to be done.
     
  8. plako

    plako Chieftain

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    Yes starting positions are numbered and r_rolo1 hopefully draws me an order. I actually asked him to do it earler today ;).
     
  9. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :rockon: for our outstanding mapmaker!
     
  10. Regis Hastur

    Regis Hastur Chieftain

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    Location:
    Germany
    Civforum.de picked Inca
     
  11. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    Wow, very cool. Thanks to all the teams for clearing up their votes so quickly. When I saw this issue come up I was expecting days of debate. Now we've got a definitive espionage vote, and a civ choice! That's pretty good for one day. :)
     
  12. Mojoqmeyvam

    Mojoqmeyvam Chieftain

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    Apolyton is up.

    Spanish Apolyton is on deck (i.e., next).
     
  13. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    I'm at a loss that the voting is presently in favour of leaving a demonstrably broken and exploitative mechanic in the game for abuse. What do we gain from allowing a clearly incorrectly scaled mechanic in the game like this? Teams who intend to aid their victory by the use of such a broken mechanic may as well just use the Oracle or Liberalism to take multiple techs. They're not that different - one gains hundreds or thousands of beakers in a one-off for free, the other costs a specific opponent hundreds or thousands of beakers over 5 turns (+ even more in potential anarchy), for the input of only a few hundred espionage points from a minion nation (investing 1 turn or less at that point in the game), and can potentially be repeated indefinitely.

    When it can cost less espionage points to mess with an entire empire than with a single city, you know something is very wrong.
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    What pick are we on? 3? So It's just Ragnar and Inca that have been picked right? Need to start brainstorming on choices so I just want to be sure. Is there a thread where the picks are being recorded?
     
  15. OzzyKP

    OzzyKP Chieftain

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    TWO civ choices. :D
     
  16. OzzyKP

    OzzyKP Chieftain

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    Uh, yea. This thread:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=463321

    And we're on pick 4 now.
     
  17. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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  18. Magno_uy

    Magno_uy Chieftain

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    thinking.... or something close to that...
     
  19. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

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    I agree that we shouldn't.. I believe many just voted yes without thinking of the consequences of these missions, but the rest must adapt anyway.. it's democracy after all.
     
  20. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Here's an example of the potential consequences.

    T100: Spy swaps civics in your empire, 5 turn wait imposed before you can do anything.
    T101: Can't switch back, 4 turns to go
    T102: Can't switch back, 3 turns to go
    T103: Can't switch back, 2 turns to go
    T104: Can't switch back, 1 turn to go
    T105: You switch to your original civics, 5 turn wait supposedly imposed. Later that turn, a spy swaps your civics, ignoring the 5 turn wait. New 5 turn wait imposed.
    T106: Can't switch back, 4 turns to go
    T107: Can't switch back, 3 turns to go
    T108: Can't switch back, 2 turns to go
    T109: Can't switch back, 1 turn to go
    T110: You switch back. Later that turn, a spy swaps your civics, ignoring the 5 turn wait. New 5 turn wait imposed.

    ...and so on and so forth. It can potentially go on like that indefinitely, as long as there is a minion nation around willing to build a couple of Spies and spend a turn or two on full espionage every now and then to screw with you. There is no minimum wait period for these missions - Spies can enact them at any time... only just switched or not, Anarchy or not.

    This is not a "tactic" nor a "strategy" - it's a broken exploit in its present form, plain and simple. It's only made worse in high-level multiplayer games with a large number of human opponents. It's no different than grabbing extra techs with the Oracle or Liberalism - sure the game allows you to do it in regular play, but that doesn't mean it's not highly exploitative. And that is why it's silly not to ban the civic/religion swap missions.

    It's foolish to allow exploitative mechanics in a game like this. I would hope that we would all be here to try to test our collective skill and wit across an epic game of Civ4... not to test who can abuse a demonstrably broken mechanic the most effectively.
     

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