Planning cIV BTS MTDG III

azzaman333 said:
The funny thing is, your arguments could probably just as easily be used to argue for allowing double moves. After all, in theory everyone can use the powerful tool of a double move. Why not allow them too?
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You are not correct (despite your high flown signature) :)

One is strategic tool which anyone can use on in-game strategical decision basis, where the other thing is real-time related and those who have more time to lurk around online at the end of the timer will benefit from it more often.

Not to mention that using CSM is voted ON, and the case with double moves is already part of the rules - no double-moves at all :)
 
2metraninja said:
You are not correct (despite your high flown signature) :)

One is strategic tool which anyone can use on in-game strategical decision basis, where the other thing is real-time related and those who have more time to lurk around online at the end of the timer will benefit from it more often.

Not to mention that using CSM is voted ON, and the case with double moves is already part of the rules - no double-moves at all :)
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Both have disproportionately large benefits for their costs. Why take such a hard line stance on DMs but not CSMs?
 
I already answered on that. CMS is entirely in-game thing and DM is a matter of who have time to spend waiting the turn to switch.

Also, for pitbosses it is wide-and unanimously agreed that DM are not good for the gameplay (I believe mostly because it involves RL timing and rewards those who have more spare time IRL which is not connected with taking in-game strategic decisions). Where CSMs as it seems are not so widely believed to be such an evil.

And after all, it is more in our - pitboss community - that DM is something bad, because it does not requires skills - no strategic and no psysical other than being online in the right time. For contrast to this, in an online Civ4 MP, the ability to double-moving your opponent is considered a highly desirable virtue. Why? Because it requires physical skills to be made (speed, reaction, sense for timing, etc.) :)
 
OK guys, going out to have some beers.

Will continue later. But was just wondering isnt this whole "CSM is bad, only the blind cant see it, listen to our tragic dooming prophecies" attitude hurting more the game and the stance of team RB than all the possible mess which the voted "Full espionage ON" setting will ever do?
 
2metraninja said:
I already answered on that. CMS is entirely in-game thing and DM is a matter of who have time to spend waiting the turn to switch.

Also, for pitbosses it is wide-and unanimously agreed that DM are not good for the gameplay (I believe mostly because it involves RL timing and rewards those who have more spare time IRL which is not connected with taking in-game strategic decisions). Where CSMs as it seems are not so widely believed to be such an evil.

And after all, it is more in our - pitboss community - that DM is something bad, because it does not requires skills - no strategic and no psysical other than being online in the right time. For contrast to this, in an online Civ4 MP, the ability to double-moving your opponent is considered a highly desirable virtue. Why? Because it requires physical skills to be made (speed, reaction, sense for timing, etc.) :)
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Requiring time to be able to orchestrate a DM isn't why it's typically outlawed though. It's because of the enormous benefit it gives compared to the costs, which you conveniently seem to ignore when it comes to CSM.

2metraninja said:
OK guys, going out to have some beers.

Will continue later. But was just wondering isnt this whole "CSM is bad, only the blind cant see it, listen to our tragic dooming prophecies" attitude hurting more the game and the stance of team RB than all the possible mess which the voted "Full espionage ON" setting will ever do?
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For a start, I don't speak for any team. My posts are purely my own opinion, and have nothing to do with CFC, RB, Poly, or any other website I might have an account on.

I firmly believe that Full Espionage on will cause a team to rage quit at some point. I have no idea who, or when, but I reckon it'll happen, and it'll probably kill the game. Most likely to happen if a team falls behind and decides to sabotage another civ to try to remain semi-relevant, or if one team gets dogpiled.
 
can you post that in the official thread, please...
 
Civfanatics, you're up...
 
No we're not; let's not forget CivPlayers.

OT4E and the team, you're up. :)
 
EDIT: Double post.

OT4E and the team, you're up. :)
 
@LP - can you update the opening post in the leader pic thread with the current situation ...

Team WePlayCiv (Ragnar of __________)
Team Civforum.de (__________ of Inca)
Team Apolyton (Elizabeth of __________)
Team Spanish Apolyton (Boadicea of __________)
Team Civfanatics (__________ of India)
Team CivPlayers (__________ of __________)
Team Realms Beyond (__________ of __________)
Team UniversCivilization (__________ of __________)
Team Civfr (__________ of __________)
 
Requiring time to be able to orchestrate a DM isn't why it's typically outlawed though. It's because of the enormous benefit it gives compared to the costs, which you conveniently seem to ignore when it comes to CSM.
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Nope, it is banned in pitboss exactly because it requires efforts, not connected in any way with gaming (losing life and spending your time in front of a computer waiting the turn to switch). In simultaneous online MP it is not only allowed, but it is considered a talent. Why? Because it requires skills to do a double-move when both players are online and have the equal opportunity of doing so. And then the better at this wins, not simply who happens to be present at the time.

For a start, I don't speak for any team. My posts are purely my own opinion, and have nothing to do with CFC, RB, Poly, or any other website I might have an account on.
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Yeah, right, but to the unbiased observer it may look like strange coincidence how one after another RB team members come and try to articulate loudly how bad CSM are and persuade teams to change their vote with the presumption "you dont know what you are doing, so listen to us". It is OK, you have right on opinion, but yet the vote is that. 5:4. And dont ever try to impose that Sommers is dictating things. Teams over which Sommers have no any relation have changed their votes and the vote is still in favor of full espionage allowed. :)


I firmly believe that Full Espionage on will cause a team to rage quit at some point. I have no idea who, or when, but I reckon it'll happen, and it'll probably kill the game. Most likely to happen if a team falls behind and decides to sabotage another civ to try to remain semi-relevant, or if one team gets dogpiled.
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Personally I dont give a buck for the CSM, I can play with or without it, or even despite it. But making prophecies how the game will end in disaster before it is even started is not nice to those committed and decided to play it. To some more biased observer it may look even that Realms Beyond team think they will be so great and unreachable in the game, that only the uber-unfair-CSM-weapon can hurt them and it is inevitable that it will come to this. Or they are just trying to make an excuse if (God forbid the blasphemy!!!) they might lose the game or those most vocal now will quit the game and desert their teams after just few months.

As some way more tolerant and enthusiastic RB players said, it is the spirit of comradeship that will bring enjoyment to them and they will play the cards they are dealt.

I think this spirit will drive us to nice and enjoyable game way more than pointless arguing over things 10's of times already said.
 
The important thing is, that you don`t read the post til the end; the team 'll quit.
I'm not the meaning that majority decisions are the best possible.

imo better were a fixed rule system and then ask teams to play with this rules.
After the mod decision I decide I will not play only look.

btw
I 've seen the end of the last ISDG (as I was the main player in both Quali and Final of my team). I don't know who played in CFC other than BLCG or LP in his team. In the last MDTGs there was also most time only 1 or 2 players. In the first I was also main (and long time only) player. My playing civ is not the best but my experince in Team-games are not small,

I would wish the play luck for the ending is civlike and not other.
 
Dont make me quote all the things which annoyed me with your overconfidence and insulting opinion about other teams. Truth to be told though, the most loudly boaster are actually not going to actually play in the game beyond lurking team RB.
 
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