JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Honest vs Deceiver and Aerial vs Defensive...……double Ying and Yang!
Player's Guide to Complex Traits
- Thread starter Thunderbrd
- Start date
IdioticUlt1mara
Prince
Honest vs Deceiver and Aerial vs Defensive...……double Ying and Yang!
Pretty much yep. They are counteractive traits and not the most OP either
IdioticUlt1mara
Prince
Ok So I might be dead but it isnt due to me having traditional/HG its due to Deity being so stupidly strong compared to Immortal. Also so many of the AI being so overly aggro
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well, I DID say that the AI is doing better at spreading. When in the game did you get beat?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Wait!??? Isn't that what you wanted???
IdioticUlt1mara
Prince
I do want them harder its just HOW much harder deity is compared to Immortal. Its not like a single step its like a leap off a cliff <3
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Well Deity has always been like that with them getting an extra "settler" and other units at game start. Deity is you going against the AI that is double in almost everything from the get go. And even then we have Deity players from vanilla BtS game play that Complain bitterly that the AI is Too Weak. So StrategyOnly made Nightmare Deity. But even that has been watered down a bit too in the past.
But Finally we are getting the Mod to the point of being almost on par with vanilla Deity player's expectations. We got tired of hearing, " this mod is too weak". "The AI sucks, etc..."
It's good that our regular Deity players are now being challenged a little bit. Old C2C strategies will perhaps need to be re-thought out and new ones developed. This should be a Good thing for the Mod. don't you think so?
IdioticUlt1mara
Prince
Well Deity has always been like that with them getting an extra "settler" and other units at game start. Deity is you going against the AI that is double in almost everything from the get go. And even then we have Deity players from vanilla BtS game play that Complain bitterly that the AI is Too Weak. So StrategyOnly made Nightmare Deity. But even that has been watered down a bit too in the past.
But Finally we are getting the Mod to the point of being almost on par with vanilla Deity player's expectations. We got tired of hearing, " this mod is too weak". "The AI sucks, etc..."
It's good that our regular Deity players are now being challenged a little bit. Old C2C strategies will perhaps need to be re-thought out and new ones developed. This should be a Good thing for the Mod. don't you think so?
Yeah I guess. I did used to find NM kinda easy as well tbh
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Change makes us all 
a bit till we adjust. 
IdioticUlt1mara
Prince
@Thunderbrd Nomadic promotion is the opposite of what it should be I think? well at least the terrain movement cost is. As it is +1 terrain movement cost not -1? This equates to an overal nothing bonus
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You may be right... I'll take a look.
GiuseppeIII
The Third Giuseppe
Reading through these posts is getting me excited to do another play through! Hopefully I’ll have enough time between the new anno and the release of imperator next week!...
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
The level of
Modifier's in many of the New Traits will need to be looked at. EDITTED:
In light of this, Civics will get a harder look too. I was concerned I had cut
and 
Modifiers too much too early. But looks like that fear was unfounded. Was worried about how AI would handle it too. How they would handle the trimming. Seems that fear was unfounded. A snip, snip, snipping I will go! 
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You are seeing my point that without more strain on gold... not crippling but stressing... from other areas in the game, the boosts to gold you CAN opt for in trait selections will have no value. The way this trait list is designed will show us how balanced differing parts of the game actually are in reference to the other elements.
+% gold from buildings and especially resources vastly overpowers civics, traits and property pseudobuildings/pests as we know it.
Here is StrategyOnly's Noble/Normal/Large savegame screenshots, hes in middle of Industrial era.
Spoiler :
In his case capital gets base gold multiplied by 4.43x - 2.21x from bonuses, 1.38x from buildings and rest from other stuff.
Wonders are accounted separately.
I can halve +% gold from all buildings and reduce bonus influence to +1% for each resource.
Gold has highest multiplier to base, other "yields" have lower multiplier to base here.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It could be good to reduce those a bit but do it with care not to undervalue those sources tooo much.
I think end results would be higher disparity between buildings and resource +% gold boosters, as plenty of stuff already has +1% gold with resource.
So producing/importing resources, that you don't have would be more important.
Also I remember when someone didn't have tires/automobiles in Atomic era or computers in Information era
, they weren't annihilated because AI can't exploit that, at least after Renaissance era.Looks like gold from bonuses will be snapped harder than gold from buildings.
Looks like reduction wasn't too strong.
Also buildings are spread across timeline, so effect is generally stronger in later eras, when you have more gold.
Spoiler :
Depending on where you are either you won't notice much of dip, or you may be in red, but already have millions of gold.
Or you can compensate by building +gold buildings.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I think end results would be higher disparity between buildings and resource +% gold boosters, as plenty of stuff already has +1% gold with resource.
So producing/importing resources, that you don't have would be more important.
Also I remember when someone didn't have tires/automobiles in Atomic era or computers in Information era
Looks like gold from bonuses will be snapped harder than gold from buildings.
Looks like reduction wasn't too strong.
Also buildings are spread across timeline, so effect is generally stronger in later eras, when you have more gold.
Spoiler :
Depending on where you are either you won't notice much of dip, or you may be in red, but already have millions of gold.
Or you can compensate by building +gold buildings.
One problem to remember, because we've had it before, you have to be careful Not to push the AI into building all the Bad Crime +
giving buildings. I don't think they can handle that well enough still.Roosevelt is my leader With Organized, Industrious, and Populist. It's now 196 AD and I'm just 1 turn from Democracy in Classical era. I have 118,993 in
in the treasury and am making 2700+/turn. I have Never had this much Ever. And I mean Ever at this stage of the Mod's play in 10 years of playing it.W Wonders and NWs Have to be looked at Seriously and can not be left untouched in regards to
Modifiers.The earliest part of the Mod can be clamped down by Civics and actually is. But by the time you hit Trade and Trade Language Civic the flow increases fast from there on.
And you can run out of buildings to build. I'm there right now in many of my larger cities. And I do not build Crime giving buildings for more
either.@T-brd my Capital city is now at 25 pop. The war with the Barbs has been a slow back and forth affair. I have a Large fleet of Galley's that are ferrying units non stop to the frontlines of this war on the Barbs. Neither I nor Hammurabi have yet to take a single Barb City. Though I'm just about staged with enough units to take a 4 pop Barb city. The smallest of 7 on my continent. It only holds about 90 units right now, +/- 20 or so that come and go. Capturing Barb Palisades across open spaces has been the stepping stones. They are turning into forts now for both the barb and myself. The Barb city Ellasar which you can see with the black bear just to the right of the victory settings popup is the 4 pop city that I'm targeting for capture.
EDIT:
Just saw this. So It looks like I need to get updated and then see how much things change! This will be interesting to say the least.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well, you're seeing the issue I was talking about with gold at least. The upkeep is greatly diminished by Organized, quite effectively I'm sure, but it still isn't the whole issue. You'd have nearly what you have now if you didn't have anything affecting your upkeep from traits - it's gotten that lax and I can say that from seeing an AI playthrough recently that didn't have the gold benefits from organized but showed far too much ease with gold in general. We'll see how Rax's adjustments change things but I think we'll have to do more through civics or more sweeping building upkeeps, but that's a tough road without making buildings too undesirable for the AI.
Well those would have stronger effect, if you build them all in city with highest base gold output preferably a capital.One problem to remember, because we've had it before, you have to be careful Not to push the AI into building all the Bad Crime +
W Wonders and NWs Have to be looked at Seriously and can not be left untouched in regards to
Wonder gold modifier is listed separately from buildings, civics, traits and resources.
You can hover over gold in top left in city screen.
As for +crime gold giving buildings AI has stronger discount on units compared to discount on buildings, so it shouldn't be that hard to build few more property control units.
Also crime is less dependent on population for AI than for player.
Trade produces commerce, that can be converted to gold too - that its potential source of gold.
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