I could use a little bit of help. I've found that I enjoy the Svarts, and after playing this for about 4 months now, I'm seem to be stuck on emperor. going immortal finds me out horsed in the first 200 turns and deity...well, it's not very pretty. I feel like i have a good feel for how everything works, as far as economy, growing pops and maintenance and everything. I need some advice on how to take my game to the next level...any hints out there from the pros. i read somewhere that one guy attacks within the first 35 turns. this seems impossible seeing as how my first warrior usually takes 13-25 turns to complete. maybe some build order ideas?
Playing Deity
- Thread starter DarkxL0rd
- Start date
35 turns would probably be quick speed, even though it's less doable on diety. For a nice diety game i'd recommend the good old OCC survival challenge, playing as the sidar with always war on. Just build warriors, warriors and more warriors, and shade any that hit 26 exp. Go for nox noctis, after which your assassins and mages should be able to grind any attacking army into the dust, while preparing your own offensive forces.
What helped me move up to immortal/deity was a shift in my way of thinking. Instead of thinking "what shall I build now?" I started thinking "Can I afford to produce something other than a warrior and if so is that something in the long run worth more than a warrior?"
You don't learn when to produce military. You learn when not to. Producing military is the standard. Only once you master that part can you branch out into other areas.
You don't learn when to produce military. You learn when not to. Producing military is the standard. Only once you master that part can you branch out into other areas.
arcticnightwolf
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2008
- Messages
- 1,301
I never think like that ... Thanks for hint!
slowcar
King
turn 35 was probably me (on normal speed). i played with tasunke and had some barbarians to level my first warrior. nontheless both my neighbours already had hunters - makes shock2 not so worth it.
the game is public (in german, but pictures tend to be the same
tasunke, deity, 18 civs, aggressive ai)
i wrote some small pieces here: short guide to rushing
most important is to level your troops on barbarians (without getting eaten by spiders). try to get a single warrior to combat3+shock2 (+march) asap.
and go kill your neighbour.
on deity it is important to have the initiative. if you declare war on somebody and another AI decides to backstab you the game is sometimes over - that's why it is deity.
on the other hand it should be manageable to beat the AIs 1:1.
due to the very early availability of the most important buildings, markets and elder councils, as well as city states, you don't have to play rush+build as in BtS (where every conquest takes a builder phase to re-establish). and as there is no lib-race you can happily ignore AIs out-teching you by having better promoted troops.
later on you have maelstrom and several other spells that, together with a bunch of blitz-chariots and city-raider-axemen, allow you to crush all kinds of T4 units with ease.
the hardest part is to get your game rolling early. if you give the AIs time to use their advantage you will loose. grab yourself a nice second capital as soon as possible and the playfield is a lot more even.
the game is public (in german, but pictures tend to be the same
tasunke, deity, 18 civs, aggressive ai)i wrote some small pieces here: short guide to rushing
most important is to level your troops on barbarians (without getting eaten by spiders). try to get a single warrior to combat3+shock2 (+march) asap.
and go kill your neighbour.
on deity it is important to have the initiative. if you declare war on somebody and another AI decides to backstab you the game is sometimes over - that's why it is deity.
on the other hand it should be manageable to beat the AIs 1:1.
due to the very early availability of the most important buildings, markets and elder councils, as well as city states, you don't have to play rush+build as in BtS (where every conquest takes a builder phase to re-establish). and as there is no lib-race you can happily ignore AIs out-teching you by having better promoted troops.
later on you have maelstrom and several other spells that, together with a bunch of blitz-chariots and city-raider-axemen, allow you to crush all kinds of T4 units with ease.
the hardest part is to get your game rolling early. if you give the AIs time to use their advantage you will loose. grab yourself a nice second capital as soon as possible and the playfield is a lot more even.
recently i've learned to not build granaries or smoke houses till i need the health boost. but my usual play style is:
1. warrior, warrior, pop 4-5 by then, worker, warrior, settler.
2. i usually have 1 warrior in my capital and 2-3 per city. building workers as needed.
3. by city 2-3 i get god king. if i got a prophet from a constellation i forgo hunters to waiting a few extra turns for FoL. if not i go hunters which with sinister are str. 5. i dont really need copper with the fawns getting sinister. so bronze working isnt something i get soon.
4. by the time i have city 5 i'm usually so far behind points-wise it seems, and tasunke is already knocking on my door. i swear...if i spawn near him i reload the freakin map.
5. when i play emperor i dominate no problem, dont know why one step up is so much harder for me.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Workers are really important actually. It is the first non combat unit I build, and I generally don't 'wait' for my capital to max it's size first.
You have two early game scenarios: 1) Warrior rush a close enemy. 2) Stuck with one or two cities for a while.
In the former, obviously you just need Warriors. for 2) however, which happens if you aren't playing a particularly aggressive faction, you need to make sure you start improving our tile yields early and often.
God King is also important enough to bee line.
You have two early game scenarios: 1) Warrior rush a close enemy. 2) Stuck with one or two cities for a while.
In the former, obviously you just need Warriors. for 2) however, which happens if you aren't playing a particularly aggressive faction, you need to make sure you start improving our tile yields early and often.
God King is also important enough to bee line.
Sounds to me like you do not build enough warriors. You need to realize that your number one priority is to survive. For this you absolutely must have enough troops, preferably with promotions. If you lose go back, build fewer cities/buildings/etc and more warriors and try again. If you still lose repeat. If you so have to have a single city producing nothing but warriors (and one worker) then do it.
Only when you have learnt to survive can you learn to win.
Only when you have learnt to survive can you learn to win.
slowcar
King
the AI tends to have a lot more troops - but usually they are also distributed a lot.
if you attack with 4-6 warriors very early chances are good to capture a city. you loose a few troops but some others have gained valuable experience.
a worker has the highest priority if there is anything to improve - and techs to enable your worker to do so, too. even a street towards your enemy is worth a lot - if your troops arrive 4 turns earlier you have 1 enemy warrior less to kill.
the ai builds settlers quite early (and they can, with their 2 cities), you have to leverage this by taking them out before their 3rd city goes productive.
task 1:
build warriors. and more. and go kill somebody with them.
task 2:
do the same without going bancrupt
if you attack with 4-6 warriors very early chances are good to capture a city. you loose a few troops but some others have gained valuable experience.
a worker has the highest priority if there is anything to improve - and techs to enable your worker to do so, too. even a street towards your enemy is worth a lot - if your troops arrive 4 turns earlier you have 1 enemy warrior less to kill.
the ai builds settlers quite early (and they can, with their 2 cities), you have to leverage this by taking them out before their 3rd city goes productive.
task 1:
build warriors. and more. and go kill somebody with them.
task 2:
do the same without going bancrupt
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
As of 0.34, on Immortal and Deity, all troops the AI builds get 2 free promotions (3 on Deity if the leader is charismatic.) I don't really see how these early rushes are supposed to work anymore. It's especially bad if the Illians are anywhere on the map, because everyone's territory is going to be crawling with frostling archers trying to choke development before you can really do much, which means:
-you have to use your warriors to kill the ones in your lands
-AI lands you somehow manage to capture won't be productive because it's not safe for workers to improve them.
Between that and the AI teching slower, it resembles BtS more in the "tech up to a higher tier, smash" way.
-you have to use your warriors to kill the ones in your lands
-AI lands you somehow manage to capture won't be productive because it's not safe for workers to improve them.
Between that and the AI teching slower, it resembles BtS more in the "tech up to a higher tier, smash" way.
I haven't tried rushing in .34 yet but even if it doesn't work so well anymore you still need plenty of troops to defend your land. Those promotions the AI get doesn't just work on defense and if you don't come for them they'll come for you...
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2004
- Messages
- 1,359
A: build more warriors (or move down in difficulty)
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
shouldn't this be moved to the strategy subforum?
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
Read topic titles before you post.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Not completely true actually. Tasunke's early rush is far and away better than anyone else's. Not only do his warriors have combat 1 and Commando, but the Hippus world spell allows you to win battles that would otherwise destroy you, and allow you to finish an opponent off faster.
It's a very hard decision on whether or not to use it to win your first battle (Second kill is generally better, if you can swing it).
Another good early kill is via Khandros Fir of the Khazad. He is also Aggressive to start which is a big perk of course, but the two things that put him ahead of other aggressive leaders are being a Dwarf (Two movement on hills) and being a Dwarf (+2 XP from BREWERIES).
Note that the 2 xp from breweries isn't really listed in a good way on the building, but it does work, and you can build them right off the bat in any city adjacent to a river. Start near a river, go straight for Mysticism, and pump out them Dwarven warriors with 2 xp (Combat 1, shock 1).
loffenx
Warlord
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 267
I can't really speak for Deity, but for Immortal you shoul do fine with the Svarts.
Usually I grab what techs are needed to get my immediate resources, and then aim for Mysticism, God King, Pagan Temple, Great Prophet who pops Fellowship of Leaves. This is a top priority.
On a script like Erebus, for example, all the forests makes your Woodsman I Fawns tear through most barbarians and enemy Units, untill you can get your sinsiter hunters out and rolling. But Fawns work well for a while, so don't expose yourself unecessarily building thoose hunting lodges.
Rushing is too much of a gamble theese days for me, but then again I've never really liked rushing and like to have a multitude of opponents, fluff-wise.
Hmm my early morning 2c, will see if I come up with anything else.
Usually I grab what techs are needed to get my immediate resources, and then aim for Mysticism, God King, Pagan Temple, Great Prophet who pops Fellowship of Leaves. This is a top priority.
On a script like Erebus, for example, all the forests makes your Woodsman I Fawns tear through most barbarians and enemy Units, untill you can get your sinsiter hunters out and rolling. But Fawns work well for a while, so don't expose yourself unecessarily building thoose hunting lodges.
Rushing is too much of a gamble theese days for me, but then again I've never really liked rushing and like to have a multitude of opponents, fluff-wise.
Hmm my early morning 2c, will see if I come up with anything else.
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