please make nukes better!

[paradigmx]

Whatever you do, don't give us the BS 1 nuke per game crap that Revolutions stuck us with

 

[PieceOfMind]

Whatever you do, don't give us the BS 1 nuke per game crap that Revolutions stuck us with

I was going to say the same thing.

 

[99wattr89]

if you drop 2 nukes in the same spot, I'm pretty sure all the units always die there. Its still really nice to wipe enemy doomstacks, if you can get a bomber or spy to find them in their own territory.

also, 99wattr89 - It wouldn't, but it sure would slow down production of spaceship components, in any nuked city. With spies, or just high espionage levels, and nukes, you could effectively cripple a civs ability to not only build spaceship parts, but build new military, considering those are likely to be some of the most productive cities. If you caught his doomstacks, and hit them twice, you could really do serious damage, with less than 20 nukes, which isn't unreasonable.

Once you've nuked a city down to 1 population and leveled all the improvements, leaving it in a sea of fallout, it can't meaningfully work on a spaceship part anyway. You've already stopped that city ever being productive again, so being able to finish it off once every building and the entire population are dead makes no real difference at all. And would make a lot more sense.

I'm very much against making nukes any stronger, but if you use enough of them that the target city is nothing but cinders and fallout, then it should end up destroyed. Without that capacity, nukes feel a lot weaker than they actually are.

 

[Windsor]

The spaceship isn't hosted in a particular city, so how would destroying a city stop a launch?

I was thinking of BTS where razing the capital will stop an already launched ship

 

[99wattr89]

I was thinking of BTS where razing the capital will stop an already launched ship

Razing just the capital stops a launched ship? That's wierd. I don't think that's ever come up in a game for me.
You might as well just have a proviso that nukes can't destroy capitals.

Nukes never destroying cities at all is just frustrating - it makes them feel like blunted weapons, and doesn't really limit thier power, since other than for supporting a spaceship in flight, that 1 population city with no buildings in a sea of fallout is worthless.

 

[Johnny Be]

Whatever you do, don't give us the BS 1 nuke per game crap that Revolutions stuck us with

I'm not a fan of "hard limits" as well, but I think the number of nukes should be kept small for game balance.

IMO the best way to implement in CiV would be making them depend on resources (uranium), expensive and with high maintenance cost. That way you can have some, if you are a large empire, BUT you have to decide were to use them and IF using them is a sensible idea, since it will make other nations hate you (or even declare war) before you can build more.

 

[Samez]

It will be interesting to see how nukes are handled while there is only one unit per tile... (and no units in cities).
I would guess they will deal damage to all 6 adjacent tiles. (so 7 tiles in total)

 

[TCB]

My guess is that nukes will at the very least reduce the health bar of a city to zero, making it completely defenceless, as well as a population reduction. It would be good to see tactical nukes that have an area of affect, whereby all units in the surrounding hexes of the target would be badly damaged.

 

[99wattr89]

My guess is that nukes will at the very least reduce the health bar of a city to zero, making it completely defenceless, as well as a population reduction. It would be good to see tactical nukes that have an area of affect, whereby all units in the surrounding hexes of the target would be badly damaged.

Ew, no.
Making a city defenceless in one hit is far too powerful, that's a horrible idea.
It should do some damage with each hit, not make a city defenceless after just one.

 

[rjaco31]

I must disagree with a lot of people here. A 1 population is totally different from a razed city because nukes don't destroy wonders. Thus, you cannot prevent a cultural victory even with an unlimited ammount of nukes & you just have to send some land troops. I find it kind of odd.

 

[Ddude97]

Ew, no.
Making a city defenceless in one hit is far too powerful, that's a horrible idea.
It should do some damage with each hit, not make a city defenceless after just one.

So you want nukes to be glorified artillery/conventional missiles with big diplo impact?
Personally, I think nukes should be stronger, but super expensive.

 

[Johnny Be]

Personally, I think nukes should be stronger, but super expensive.

 

[99wattr89]

I must disagree with a lot of people here. A 1 population is totally different from a razed city because nukes don't destroy wonders. Thus, you cannot prevent a cultural victory even with an unlimited ammount of nukes & you just have to send some land troops. I find it kind of odd.

That's a point. Still, a city nuked to 1 population shouldn't produce much culture at all - everyone's dead! xD
In any case, if you have enough nukes to do that to a city after it has a bunker and whatnot, then the enemy can't possibly stop you conquering the city anyway, all it does it buy the enemy a few turns of impotence before you get there.

So you want nukes to be glorified artillery/conventional missiles with big diplo impact?
Personally, I think nukes should be stronger, but super expensive.

So you want nukes to completely break the game?
They're already powerful enough, and making them cost more is meaningless, because big civs will still build all they want.
I also said they should have a lesser diplomatic impact - check my earlier posts.

 

[Johnny Be]

So you want nukes to completely break the game?
They're already powerful enough, and making them cost more is meaningless, because big civs will still build all they want.
I also said they should have a lesser diplomatic impact - check my earlier posts.

I defend exactly the opposite...

A Nuclear Bomb is a very big thing! It was a huge human effort to produce and It causes huge destruction and suffering if used. It's game version should be true to the fact.

There are several reasons why they aren't used in real life (apart from the 2 over Japan). To account for this and prevent breaking the game, I think they should have a huge maintenance/unhappiness/diplomatic impact. The high cost is just one of the factors.

Launching a Nuke should be a very tactical and reflected decision game wise.

But we'll see how they implement and what the result is in 76 days.

 

[Schuesseled]

Razing just the capital stops a launched ship? That's wierd. I don't think that's ever come up in a game for me.
You might as well just have a proviso that nukes can't destroy capitals.

Nukes never destroying cities at all is just frustrating - it makes them feel like blunted weapons, and doesn't really limit thier power, since other than for supporting a spaceship in flight, that 1 population city with no buildings in a sea of fallout is worthless.

Well one nuke can't estroy a city, a portion of it certainly, but not the whole shebang, that would require multiple nukes, and isn't really necessary as one nuke basically makes a city worthless.

In civ 5 with city health one nuke won't destroy the city, but will probably let a fast unit take the city the very next turn, and then you can raise it properly. If you make it feel better you can imagine a nuke going off in the city every turn till its levelled.

 

[Ddude97]

Well one nuke can't estroy a city, a portion of it certainly, but not the whole shebang, that would require multiple nukes, and isn't really necessary as one nuke basically makes a city worthless.

Yeah, not quite sure about that one, what size are you talking about because with megaton and multiple megaton nukes, bye bye city (unless of course it was bunkered, but then they'd all become zombies trying to eat everyone, right?)

 

[hossam]

i remember in SMAC the planet buster completely leveled a city and the terrain surrounding it, why cant civ nukes also level cities? i agree with the sentiment that nukes should be expensive to produce and maintain, as well as incurring a diplo hit for simply having them, and a HUGE diplo hit for actually using them, and the fact that they should be limited by how much uranium you have.

 

[Carver]

edit: new rant, make it so that every civ has to build the Manhattan project , or steal the technology or buy from someone who has built it. seriously sid how many countries suddenly learned the secrets of nuclear technology after America built the Manhattan project?

I've never agreed with this argument. The first (successful) nuclear weapons program was immeasurably more difficult than later programs - much of the technology is now in the public domain. Iraq was able to build nuclear facilities that were reproductions of America's facilities due to the accessibility of information.

Civ has always acknowledged the diffusion of technology, by making techs cheaper to research when other civs already had those techs. The same principle should apply to nukes.

I would just like the AI to think twice before using nukes. Most games I'm in they fire one off as soon as they get the tech, and eventually you have an entire continent of fallout affected terrain

Yes, in C4 the AI seems to treat nukes (when deciding to use them) like any other weapon. It would be nice if they were more reflective, and showed a softer side: consideration, restraint, concern for civilians, and concern for one's legacy.

 

[Songkok]

Maybe they should make the use of nukes causing massive unhappiness (war weariness?) in the civ that uses them.
If the civ are more towards the liberty bend, then this might results in massive revolts in their own cities due to the inhumanity of this act. If the civ are more towards the police states, then they need more units to do policing duties to prevent unhappiness. Or maybe extensive propoganda to convince their citizens that the other civ are not pple but demons that are needed to be wiped off the surface of earth...

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Ew, no.
Making a city defenceless in one hit is far too powerful, that's a horrible idea.
It should do some damage with each hit, not make a city defenceless after just one.

Here's where the whole discussion of realism vs. balanced play comes in. Realistically speaking, if a city suffered an ICBM thermonuclear attack, it would be basically defenseless against an incoming army that had not just endured a 4 megaton blast.

Small cities should be completely destroyed, larger cities should be basically reduced to a skeleton. Raise the cost of nukes, require large amounts of uranium, and add in diplo hits for having nukes (ICBMs specifically). Increase diplo penalties for using nukes.

In my opinion, this not only balances the game, but adds even more realism. An offensive nuclear strike would nearly alienate a nation from its allies but would be an extremely powerful tool to use for domination. After all, do you really give a crap about what your "allies" think when the end game arrives in a domination scenario?