Poland after WWII

[TheLastOne36]

Poland now and before 2ndWW. I think that we should have get more land on East, at least to Curzon line "B" with Lwow and Brześć too.

We should've retained Lwow, Brzesc and Grodno at the very very least.

What isn't shown in the map however, is Kalingrad/Krolewiec which was originally meant to be given to us. (I think that is why the blue line extends higher up)

 

[Fanatic Noob]

And give the western lands back to a proper Deutsche owner

And Gdańsk and Wrocław was Polish cities in history also. So it is not like we gained it just after WW2 for nothing. Also you must know that Germany lost WW2, and it is Russia and west Allies who agreed for such movement of borders. Poles and Germans had almost nothing to say about it. You should blame them not us.

This map proves also that it was Polish Cities in past (992 - 1025):

Spoiler :

As you can see on this map even Szczecin was Polish city for some years in our history.
Translation of legend for map to those not Polish speaking:
Polska in Rule of Bolesław Chrobry (first king of Poland) (992 - 1025) - Polska za panowania Bolesława I Chrobrego (992 - 1025)
Capital of Poland - Stolica Polski
Other Cities (~castles) - Pozostałe miasta (grody)
Borders of Poland in 1025 - Granice Polski w 1025
Borders of other lands and countries - Granice pozostałych ziem i państw
Territory of Poland in 992 - Terytorium Polski w 992
Lands annexed by Poland - Ziemie przyłączone do Polski
Lands annexed by Poland temporary - Ziemie czasowo przyłączone

I don't mean that to be something against Poland btw.

Thanks, I not thought that you are against, but I wanted to make sure you know a bit about our history, and why we regained such lands.

What isn't shown in the map however, is Kalingrad/Krolewiec which was originally meant to be given to us. (I think that is why the blue line extends higher up)

Yes, quite possible about Kalingrad/Królewiec.

 

[RedRalph]

The fact that Poland owned some lands hundreds, if not thousands of years ago has no relevance as to whether they should own them now. Poland is not 'entitled' to Lvov any more than England is entitled to Calais, Italy is entitled to Egypt or France is entitled to Dalmatia.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

Poland is not 'entitled' to Lvov any more than England is entitled to Calais, Italy is entitled to Egypt or France is entitled to Dalmatia.

The difference between Lvov and Egypt is that Lvov is close to Poland borders, while Egypt was oversea territory of England. But agree that looking too much in past to make claims based on history is not very good and not so much politically correct. But tell this first to people who say that Poland should be divided between Russia and Germany once again...

 

[RedRalph]

The difference between Lvov and Egypt is that Lvov is close to Poland borders, while Egypt was oversea territory of England. But agree that looking too much in past to make claims based on history is not very good and not so much politically correct. But tell this first to people who say that Poland should be divided between Russia and Germany once again...

It being close to borders doesn't matter either. Otherwise Russia is entitled to Minsk. Poland has the right borders IMO, in fact it's extremely lucky to exist at all. It's a large country by European standards.

 

[choxorn]

The fact that Poland owned some lands hundreds, if not thousands of years ago has no relevance as to whether they should own them now. Poland is not 'entitled' to Lvov any more than England is entitled to Calais, Italy is entitled to Egypt or France is entitled to Dalmatia.

Yeah. Besides, the map also shows that while Gdansk/Danzig may have been Polish, most of the area around Konigsberg/Kaliningrad was always Prussian or German until after WWII.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

Yeah. Besides, the map also shows that while Gdansk/Danzig may have been Polish, most of the area around Konigsberg/Kaliningrad was always Prussian or German until after WWII.

But if I remember well history of Poland there was times when those lands and even more to north was Vassal of Poland, due Teutonic lost some war or something. But it was not so long. Maybe I also mixed up things, if those was in Teutonic times, I am not sure

 

[madviking]

You can have Lvov, Ternopol, Brest, and Grodno if you admit Poland is Eastern European.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

OK, If you extend our claims to East, while keeping current territory, then I can agree to say that Poland is Eastern European because of this extension make this statement more valid. I would even agree to say then that we are in western Asia if you extent our territory more to East than Lvov (maybe to Kiev)

 

[Aquila SPQR]

Lvov, Grodno etc. are still in the centre of Europe. You know, my American friend (I'll try to write it so you could understand it ), Europe is a part this big mass of land called "Eurasia" and its eastern border are the Ural mountains. U-R-A-L Mountains. That's in Russia. Russia - this big country in Europe/Asia. No, it's not ruled by Uncle Joe anymore. But nevermind - those cities are almost in the centre between that eastern border of Europe and westernmost parts of Europe. And if something is in the middle of something, we can say it's in the centre of it. I hope that my simple explanation helped. If you were lost in those difficult geographic locations/names or if you never heard of them, feel free to ask, I am always happy to explain difficult things to others

 

[Fanatic Noob]

LOL, good post Aquila SPQR. Also I asked 3 times. If not Poland is in Central Europe then which countries? UK? OR maybe France or Iceland? Or there such concept in your brains as "Central" but only you see "LEFT/RIGHT" but where Centrist thing? Also there is Central America, so you could live with fact, that there is Central Europe

 

[madviking]

Just so you, I'm Russian (born in St. Petersburg), and I know my geography.

Central Europe is a term reserved for the Germanic peoples of Germany and Austria. Eastern Europe encompasses all the Slavs, of which, Poland is included.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

You think that Central Europe is small then. Also it fits more to German after they reunited with East Germany, also take in mind that term "Central Europe" was invented after Soviet and their satelite Countries block was disbanded, to call those new free states of Europe differently to their Eastern and Nice Neighbors.Eastern and Nice Neighbors.

 

[Aquila SPQR]

Ahh, so everything is fine, my Russian/American friend. I have an answer also for non-Americans

The term "Eastern Europe" was excellent and fit Poland (Lithuania/Hungary/Slovakia etc.) absolutely between 1945-1989. Simply because Europe was divided between East and West. But after that it became obsolete. Poland was, since 966, part of the western civilization/culture. And right now, when we are in EU, are completely independent and there is no division on western and eastern europe, we are not "eastern europe" anymore. There is no political reason to make such division anymore. Iron curtain fell long time ago (so it's a good time to notice it at last ). Moreover - we are "central" because:

- geography says so - yes, it's so simple. West - "old EU". Centre - "new EU". East - european part of Russia.
- because of ~50 years of destructive communism and "alliance" with well known country we are still some years behind western Europe (funded heavily by USA after WWII. As we joke sometimes here "America was flooding western Europe with money while Russia was flooding us with Marx and Lenin only" ). Fortunately with this current economic growth we will reach their current level soon (of course they won't stand politely and wait for us, but we aren't angry for that ). Then there will be completely no reason to make this "eastern european" claim, unless to simply troll a bit (well, the same reason it is used today ).

Moreover - with our potential we are going to be one of the biggest players in the region soon. And with help from our neighbours - Czechs, Slovakians and Hungarians we are going to pave our own diplomatic way. Not to mention that we are one of the biggest EU members - and EU is better than US First steps and years are always hard, but give us some time and nice things will happen

Besides, if I recall correctly your definition is not very good. Russians are Slavs, but I heard you do not consider yourself "european" at all. Your country is simply too vast and is dovoded into Europe and Asia.

Fanatic Noob - po prostu Polska jest tutaj średnio lubiana i ludzie lubią nas wkurzać Nie przejmuj się tym, po prostu olewaj ich głupotę

 

[choxorn]

A 25 minute double post? Don't think I've seen that before...

 

[Fanatic Noob]

Again, good post Aquila SPQR.

Fanatic Noob - po prostu Polska jest tutaj średnio lubiana i ludzie lubią nas wkurzać Nie przejmuj się tym, po prostu olewaj ich głupotę

Got It Postraram się, zauważyłem (translation - I will try, I noticed)

 

[Aquila SPQR]

Small "edit/quote" button problem Before changing to "double post, please delete" there was my quoted previous post which I wanted to edit.

 

[choxorn]

You know, you really should provide translations for what you're saying in Polish, that kind of thing tends to piss people off and get the mods to give you warnings.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

I edited my post and provided translation to my answer, but do not worry, we was not ploting how to make Poland take the World

 

[Aquila SPQR]

You know, you really should provide translations for what you're saying in Polish, that kind of thing tends to piss people off and get the mods to give you warnings.

I don't see anything about it in the Forum Rules. And since when the Mods are concerned about what pisses people off and what's not? I've never seen such their action here

As FN said, it was nothing offensive or pointed at anyone specific. It's just a friendly advice. Moreover - there's this amazing thing called "google translate". Perfect for anyone who has never had the priviledge of learning difficult, but beautiful Polish language.