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Polarizing Polynesia

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by seancolorado, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    I wouldn't say that I "hate" Polynesia, but it would probably be one of the last CIVs I'd pick for a game.

    Their bias for water is extremly annoying because it is almost useless on some maps and friggin powerful on others. Their UU is... well.. useless for me, because I never wage war early on and never dedicate myself to an early military buildup. The Maoi improvement is interesting on paper, but also extremly situational - unless you have a neatly shaped coastline, it is too weak to justify giving up other improvements or hexes with higher yield.

    I played the "paradise found" scenario and think they fit quite well into this setting, but as a regular CIV - nah, not my cup of tea...
     
  2. copperred

    copperred Chieftain

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    I like Polynesia but I don't think there's enough to make me play them in an archipelago style due to the lack of something extra from all those coastal tiles besides moai. I really wish there was something like an extra hammer for x many tiles of sea coast where x is something realistic but not too generous.
     
  3. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    Yeah the extra culture from the golden ages is great. Not every civ has the option to have that much focus in that area during a golden age

    If you manage to get God of the Sea pantheon and if you are lucky enough to have 1-3 sea resources for each city then you are talking about 3 production with the harbors and seaports.
     
  4. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Polynesia would be the second to last civ I would choose (above India). I did play them on a water map and except for early ruins (which quickly got diminishing returns), there were no advantages that they offered. On most any (standard) map, you can settle four cities with 10+ luxuries total with any civ so it's not like a race, which seems to be the Polynesian's only advantage. As an opponent on various maps, their cities are not hard to take (early, middle or late) for they usually don't have military superiority and lack any strong units.
     
  5. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    UU is weak (way too early to be massing warriors IMHO), Maoi is mainly only helpful for cultural games, and even then takes up valuable tiles.
    UA is actually rather nice, but only for island maps really.

    I really do need to try playing them again sometime, but they just don't thrill me.
     
  6. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    I don't think I've used them even once since buying the DLC. If they made the maoi like a road (as in, it can be built on top of another tile improvement) it would go from completely crap, to awesome.
     
  7. BlueSignofDeath

    BlueSignofDeath Chieftain

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    Started a Polynesian game last night. My honest opinion? They're pretty fun to play. I enjoyed creating a country that ended up being the center of culture and economics, sitting on beach property and rolling in the dough. Polynesia gets a thumbs up from me.
     
  8. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    OK so I've been talking a lot about Polynesia and I decided to revisit them a few nights ago to really put my money where my mouth is:

    This was an interesting victory for me because I experimented with a few new things without the expectation of actually ending up on top

    Victory: Defensive Diplomatic
    Social Policies: Liberty all 5, then Commerce all 5
    Map type: Large Pangaea (that's right, I wanted to fool around on their least favored map type)

    I ended up with 7 cities total - all of them built early on. All coastal cities. All within very reasonable distance so it didn't take long for the borders to meet. I was fortunate to have at least one sea resource per city, with the exception of my capital (2 resources) and 7th city (3).

    I struggled terribly with gold/production early on because I made the idiotic - but completely intended - decision of spamming 7 maori warriors just to see if I could manage them. Typically when I'm trying to win defensively I never do something like that - I just really wanted one warrior per city...just because. With the help of commerce, I did manage. Little did I know that having those maori warriors ended up saving my ass. And here's why:

    I settled my 7 cities way too quickly and that pissed off my neighbors. Ethiopia attacked but I had a more advanced army so I was able to hold them off. Unfortunately 5 turns later so did Korea. And their army was way better than mine. But, I'm telling you, with any other civ (non-combat related civ) and I would have been puppeted in a heartbeat. I was just able to hold them off, without a single casualty and with many of my maori warriors (upgraded at this point in the game) in the yellow or red health.

    If not for the -10% enemy effectiveness UU bonus + the 10% UI bonus (20% total, essentially), I would have been wiped out. I was trailing in tech and I was lucky to have survived. I ended up winning the game on diplo because of mad cash from Commerce, trading posts and of course moai. I only managed to build one wonder the entire game (two if you count United Nations), and it ended being the one I needed most: Himeji Castle. That's 15% combat bonus added to the -10% in enemies and 10% from moai. That's what allowed me to actually breathe, since England and Japan later joined in on the Polynesia whipping. Thank goodness I allied myself with the right pair - Sweden and Persia, who distracted a lot of my enemies and allowed me to win in the first place

    On a side note: Sweden keeps dominating in my single player games lately, this one included. Anybody else have them doing insanely well as AI or is it just a few strokes of coincidence?

    Edit: Bolded key words for those who just skim the long posts
     
  9. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    Believe it or not but Polynesia is one of the strongest civs for a wide strategy. And I'm talking about continents, standard settings here.

    Why? How?

    1) Explore your own continent with a scout or a 2nd maori as usual.
    2) Immediately research sailing and build (or better: buy) 1-2 triremes -> 4 movement points through the ocean with a great line of sight.
    3) Due to amazing scouting you will find a few great city spots at the coast of other continents or islands.
    4) Go Liberty left side and start settler spamming while going for early composite bowmen for defense and access to moais. You should aim for about 8 cities scattered around all over the world before turn 100. Reason? Unique luxuries. Polynesia is the only civ that has access to all luxuries on the map.
    4) Build more workers than usual. Building moais takes some time.
    5) Wide strategy = go for a religion and pagoda spam.

    And now this is a big one!
    City and Moai placement:
    a) Don't build Moais on every available coastal tile. Polynesia needs growth and production like every other civ and if you think about it, working a tile with less than 3:c5culture: isn't very effective because a great artist slot is worth 3:c5culture:!!!
    b) Settle at peninsulas. A small patch of land which expands into the ocean in a thin line (width of 2 tiles) is the perfect spot for Moai spam. You will get 2-3 tiles worth of 5 or 6:c5culture: per tile in those city locations. That's 2-3 landmarks for free per peninsula!!!!

    Summary:
    - Best scouting with early triremes
    - Increased costs of social policies are countered by a few 4-6:c5culture: per turn tiles
    - Liberty, Piety left side, Commerce, Order is possible due to cultural advantage -> huge snowball effects with lots of happiness (pagoda spam, 2 happiness per unique luxury (remember you almost have every unique luxury on the map)), a lot of gold (trade post spam with +3-4:c5gold: per tile after commerce finisher).

    You really have to put some thought in city/moai placement and work on your defense. If you survive the first 100 turns and religion/culture/happiness starts to kick in, you will have the most powerful late game of every civ in the game! Guaranteed.
     
  10. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    This is not even how I play but it goes to show that they are not at all a linear civ like some would suggest even though they have linear qualities - which most civs have anyway. I think the one constant with Polynesia lovers is that you are more likely to be vulnerable in the early game, but once you get past the threshold you absolute soar in the late game if you played your cards right because:

    1. Moai culture later in the game gets you earning social policies at a rate as good or better than any other civ on the map, in most instances
    2. Moai gold kicks in when you really need it
    3. Coastal defense get cozier the more you establish yourself throughout the game
    4. Seashells
     
  11. spmosc

    spmosc Chieftain

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    I liked to play them at first, but now I don't choose this civ. But I always select this Civ for Ai (and sometimes only this one) as it could be in the game.
     
  12. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    The Polynesians DoWed me in my current game. Yet, they call me a warmonger. I truly wish the devs would change, where calling me that makes no sense whatsoever. It is so ridiculously stupid. Anyway, he is the warmonger. I took his capital after a lengthly fight. Pictish warriors look pretty cool in a battle against Maori warriors. The Polynesians had a big army at least 10 Maoris, and at least 5 archers.

    I do like that civ though. They are interesting to play as, and are tough early on. Especially, with their early seafaring capability.

    I feel the Inuit civ, would be an excellent choice for another non-traditional civ choice, to add to the game.
     
  13. PrimoXanthous

    PrimoXanthous ~ knightmare13 ~

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    Polynesia is a Mediocre Civ it is not that powerful nor weak. Lucky you if you could build an army of Maori warrior and Survive the classic, Renaissance, industrial, atomic and modern Era.-10% enemy combat strength would make your army much powerful; just imagine your enemy got a cavalry. you got 3 Longswordsmen who upgraded from Maori warrior, you could take down that Cavalry in a turn .
    and about the UI , I agree above the Maoi should give Food, i found it useless when you Settle on land with much plains ( 1 food, 1 production), your City population mostly worked on Much food producing tiles and all the Maoi you build along the coastline became useless.

    One thing I hate about Polynesia is when he denounce you it will never stop denouncing you. And the way he denounce with his Spear or staff ..its so very irritating.
     
  14. Dr. D

    Dr. D Warlord

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    Thanks to this thread, I decided to sink some time into some Polynesia games and they've become one of my favorite civs. I don't typically get my highest scoring games out of them, but I do find them very fun due to their unique flavor.

    I play Emperor and play for a domination victory every time. When playing with continents, the last remaining civ or two on a continent other than your own can be difficult to start a war with since their borders typically span the entire continent (not to mention carpet of doom possibilities), giving your land units no chance to get set up on land for the attack.

    This is where I find Polynesia so entertaining. I can avoid the late-game dilemma of trying to find a spot on the other continent to get my units on shore for an attack without them getting bombarded by settling on the other continent in the early game. I like to take my first settler (either bought or by liberty policy) and set sail across the ocean and find the perfect place to establish my overseas "capitol" and nobody but Polynesia can do this. It reminds me of the days of Civ III when I could get a city on another continent and rush the Forbidden Palace so I could have a capitol on two different continents... just something I find exciting.

    Pre-patch, it was easier to do this but now that the AI is more aggressive, the city is best on a hill, behind a river, by mountains, etc. In general, I almost always buy all my military units, and swordsman come at 390 gold a pop but with Polynesia, you can buy a Maori warrior for 200 and immediately upgrade for 80... quite a bargain for a swordsman with a 10% strength boost. Who said those Maori warriors were useless? Once they are Maori rifleman, you'll be stomping over ever civ in sight.

    Those are just a few of the things I enjoy about the Polynesia experience.
     
  15. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    Kamehameha is one of those leaders who has a tendency to go runaway or bust in my games, depending on the availability of Great Wall to him and other factors like not being sandwiched between Washington and Augustus. If he so deigns, and I have not seen this yet, he could theoretically mount a naval invasion of your lands from another continent in the early BCE... way before anyone reaches Renaissance or even Medieval because of Wayfinding

    I like him overall for bringing more color to the game through his unique ability.:)
     
  16. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

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    I think that Polynesia and Spain both provide the most unique game experiences. For instance, Polynesia on a terra map means you can explore the new world instantly AND collect all the ruins, giving you a ton of culture and perhaps the earliest religion. Spain is also a CIV that can really rock out if settled next to a wonder.

    In the end, they're both great novelty CIVS, but very different from the rest, providing a colorful play experience, but one that's very different from playing as the other 90% of CIVS... be that a good thing or bad thing.
     
  17. DavisonACT

    DavisonACT Chieftain

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    Same - though I am going with random civs while I learn the game - Poly was the one I got yesterday. Been fun so far.
     
  18. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    Real - Moai's max out in culture - you can't get 5-6 culture from a single tile. That said - I am playing a Gedemon Giant Earth Map (18 civs) true locations with Polynesia. I got lucky and only had Japan spawn in eastern asia (India perhaps too but I haven't gotten to that sub peninsula yet) and only the Maya in the Americas. Its still an early game but I've managed to settle 2 cities in Australia - 2 cities in Mesoamerica [Right above Palenque] 1 city in China - 1 city in Papua New Guinea
    =====

    Its incredibly fun to be able to spread out those cities that early. That being said, Polynesia is still too gimmicky. You could wait until Galleasses and hope to launch an early cross ocean naval assault - but Galleasses are incredibly slow on their own right. Ruins + the Galleass potential (I am going to take out Japan once I get galleasses) + earlier trading partners seem the only benefits of polynesia.
    =======

    I have played Polynesia actually more than Korea - maybe because its so gimmicky and random. Its not overpowered in the slightest and is extremely weak in the grand scheme/fair way of things.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we saw an Inuit DLC - but if we do I hope they make it so that the Inuit actually have some real comparative advantage and not something too gimmicky (like walking on ice which would be cool but relatively useless as well) Inuit shouldn't go the Polynesia route
     
  19. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    I suppose I technically fall into the dislike group. Color scheme, leader, UU, Maoi... none of it really appeals to me.

    But inspired by the "Celts gone wide" culture post, I have been meaning to see if I could make a wide culture Polynesia work. The Maoi prevents farms and other improvements, but if you are going wide, improvements aren't a big deal. The culture boost is fairly minor, but if it is just enough (with religious traits) to counter or nearly counter the policy increase, it may be worth it.
     
  20. Billy Rubin

    Billy Rubin breakdown product of HB

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    That's actually an awesome idea - would be a great civ to have a bonus for working tundra/snow (maybe even ice) tiles.

    Considering Polynesia: I think they're ok to play, but I don't like moais all that much. Haven't played them much and when I did, i admittedly picked map types that suit them (large islands and terra) - especially on terra, I quit the game quite soon as I settled straight in the new world with my first settler and had a giant continent to settle for myself - of course I ended up completely overpowered, which turned out quite boring.

    I'll have to try them in a continents setting once.

    As AI, most of the time I encountered them the AI turtled in and pumped out wonders, so not really played towards its strength - that was mostly pre-patch though.
     

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