Poll: What is the best Unique Building?

[Fei Kelei]

This a copycat thread since Tephros' Unique Unit poll seemed to generate a nice discussion. There are so many factors to consider and different approaches to this game that a poll of unique buildings is probably meaningless, but we're just here to have fun anyway. Just pick your favorite.

Like Tephros, I had to exclude 9 options because 25 is the maximum number for the poll. That wasn't an easy task, but the ones I chose and my reasoning are below:

Spoiler :

Shale Plant (Japan), Assembly Plant (Germany), Mall (America), and Research Institute (Russia) are out simply because they come so late, so there's nothing special to help you out for the vast majority of the game. They all have nice bonuses when you finally do get them, though.

Stele (Ethiopia), Salon (France), and Pavilion (China) are mostly just useful for cultural victory and provide no additional benefits other than culture, so they're out. (Hey, I had to narrow down the list somehow. These are good in specific situations, but UBs that provide other benefits are more versatile.)

Totem Pole (Native America). Wish I could have left this one in, because we all love extra exp, but it's still a pretty limited UB that becomes obsolete halfway through the game.

Dun (Celtia). This one's obvious.

Just to make things a little simpler, let's assume we all play without unrestricted leaders, so for example, don't pick the Roman Forum because you like it with Philosophical leaders. I think that synergy with a leader's traits is an important consideration in determining the quality and usefulness of a unique building.

My favorite UB, by the way, is the Ikhanda. It comes from the very beginning and lasts the whole game, it's cheap with Shaka's Aggressive trait, and -20% maintenance means 5 cities for the price of 4, 8 for the price of 10, etc. It really helps make Shaka a beast in the early game and keeps helping all the way to your inevitable domination victory.

 

[Cashew]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I see no poll option...

 

[Fei Kelei]

Took me a couple minutes to fill them all in. For some reason you have to post your topic before you can make the poll.

 

[PureE]

damn, that bonus on the Mali Mint is really high. I don't really understand how you can lose a game when a building that in its standard form you will almost always want in your city gives such a high boost as a UB.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Well, since I like playing water maps with the Dutch (and random with anyone else ), I went with the dike. Building the Colossus, the Maoi Statues, and having a dike (in a river side city) is pretty ridiculous. 4 commerce, 2 hammers and 2 food on every coastal tile in a city is absurd. If you have 1 food resource, you can feed several cottages and a couple mines as well.

But, honestly, I should have voted for the Obelisk. I love having 2 priest specialists with my 2 scientists (library) in an early Pyramids SE.

 

[KingLoraxII]

I like the totem pole - I feel it should have been in there. The fact it becomes obsolete with Astronomy is irrelevant IMO. Gunpowder is around then and archers are useless anyways. But in the early/middle game - having Drill 1, CG1 plus a barracks & totem pole makes your archers & longbowmen just ridiculous. Its synergy with the trait makes it necessary to have in this poll IMO......

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I'm not a fan of Protective, though I recognize it's strengths. So the totem pole wouldn't be high on my list.

As for synergy:
If I'm playing Julius Caesar, I usually use a Specialist Economy and can grab the Parthenon. So the Parthenon along with the Forum gives a 75% bonus to GPP which is 3/4 of the Philosophical trait. That's practically a 3rd trait.

 

[Fei Kelei]

Maybe I should have included the totem pole in place of a solid but boring UB like the Seowon or Apothecary. I still don't think it's that helpful compared to other UBs, but it is pretty unique, and extra-powerful longbowmen are certainly nice. It's actually more like having a couple extra unique units rather than a unique building.

 

[nbcman]

I voted terrace/Inca. A granary that gives culture even when you capture a city containing the granary from the AI. So the Incas are almost Creative due to the terrace since I always have a granary/terrace in my cities.

 

[UWHabs]

I voted for the Dike. What other UB is the equivalent of a National Wonder? Sure it comes late, but the production you can get from it is insane.

 

[r_rolo1]

I kind of like 2 of the Ub you excluded Mall is the best UU per se... too bad they come late. And I don't see what grens with 50% withdrawn ability have of repulsive

 

[KingLoraxII]

Maybe I should have included the totem pole in place of a solid but boring UB like the Seowon or Apothecary. I still don't think it's that helpful compared to other UBs, but it is pretty unique, and extra-powerful longbowmen are certainly nice. It's actually more like having a couple extra unique units rather than a unique building.

Its really no big deal - it wouldnt win nor should it - but if you scale them out - 1 to 25 - it just seems to me it would be higher than 25 on a list. It just doesnt seem a bottom 1/3 when it goes so well with the trait when there are other more lackluster UB on the list that dont do much.....Having less units to defend because of the strength of the archers/LBs to me, is very powerful.

 

[assass1n]

The Sacrificial Altar far outclasses any other UB except maybe the Ikhanda

 

[Al Capwn]

Dike

I don't play as the Dutch simply because I think this building is ridiculously overpowered. As another poster said, it's like having another Moai Statues (but even better because you get +1 on river tiles too) in EVERY city. I think it's absurd that the playtesters let this one get through.

Although as a player I love the Sacrificial Altar. If you've got a city with a couple food resources that can repopulate quickly...watch out!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Dike

I don't play as the Dutch simply because I think this building is ridiculously overpowered. As another poster said, it's like having another Moai Statues (but even better because you get +1 on river tiles too) in EVERY city. I think it's absurd that the playtesters let this one get through.

Although as a player I love the Sacrificial Altar. If you've got a city with a couple food resources that can repopulate quickly...watch out!

Yeah man. It makes those financial coastal cities able to produce buildings! Those 1 tile Islands can actually have gold and science boosting buildings? holy crap!

 

[Joshua368]

I went with the Dike, but I really like the Ikhanda, Baray, Hamman and Mall too.

 

[Cutlass]

I picked the Rathaus. It comes relatively early and never goes obsolete and that money adds up a lot over time. But there are several other good ones as well. And some of the ones that come available the earliest and do not go obsolete have the most cumulative advantage. The late game ones are pretty worthless IMO.

 

[royal62184]

My favorite is dike for the reasons everyone listed above.
Also like ziggurat (because cheaper/earlier courthose -> earlier REX)
Ikhaunda for -75% maint in all cities.
And I really love the totem pole. I do realize it isn't the most versatile building but barracks/totem pole -> CG3 DI defensive troops just seem cool to me since I don't get defenders to that point in many games because i'm usually on the offense.

 

[SirDrake]

Salon (France)... just useful for cultural victory and provide no additional benefits other than culture... UBs that provide other benefits are more versatile.

Well, I voted for the dike and would have even if the Salon had been included. So no complaints about your (admittedly difficult) choices. But I voted for the Salon prior to BTS, so I'd thought I'd throw this out:

On the assumption that you're running Representation, the Salon's benefits are significant. And why wouldn't you run Representation?

This is because increases to base numbers (commerces & gpp) are always greater than they seem, and subsequent percentage increases are always less than they seem.


For a hypothetical example, let's look at an imaginary mid-sized city where you've manged to build a world wonder (The Hanging Gardens), your more important infrastructre buildings, and you are currently running three specialists (with Representation). Let's also assume that you've built the Parthenon in some other city:

Parthenon (in other city) = +50%
Hanging Gardens = +6 +2
Library = +25% +2

Three Specialists:
scientist = +6 +3
priest x2 = +6 +6

tiles & trade routes = 30
X 70% research rate = 21

Market, Theatre, University, Observatory = ???

At this point, let's consider a mythical city where you get three UBs: the Roman Forum, the Chinese Pavilion, and the Korean Seowon. Pretty cool, right? But now compare it to the same city with the ordinary versions (Market, Theatre, University) but with a Salon in place of the Observatory:


Mythical Roman-Chinese-Korean City

Forum (replaces Market)= +25%
Pavilion (replaces Theatre) = +25% +3
Seowon (replaces University) = +35% +3
Observatory = +25%

base culture = 14 (from buildings)
X 125% = 17.5

base science = 21 (tiles & trade) + 12 (specialists) = 33
x 185% = 61.05

base gp rate = 2 (wonder) + 9 (specialists) = 11
x 175% = 19.25



French City

Market = no benefit
Theatre = +3
University = +25% +3
Salon (replaces Observatory) = +25%
free artist = +4 +4 +3

base culture = 14 (from buildings) + 4 (specialists) = 18
X 100% = 18

base science = 21 (tiles & trade) + 15 (specialists) = 37
x 175% = 64.75

base gp rate = 2 (wonder) + 12 (specialists) = 14
x 150% = 21



So with some modest and realistic % increases, that free artist is actually providing 4.5 gpp, 4 culture, and 7 beakers.

If you reduce the city's commerces and yields (say, remove the Hanging Gardens and one of the existing specialists) then the French city beats the mythical city by an even greater margin, because those extra %s (from the Forum, Seowon and Pavilion) are acting on even smaller base numbers.

If you consider instead a major city with more specialists and/or more base commerce, then those extra %s might win out. However, if the city is home to certain national wonders then that free artist is also more productive. With the National Epic (+Parthenon) he's providing 7.5 gpp; with Oxford University (+Library +University + Observatory) he's providing 11 beakers.

The downside is that you'll tend to pop a few Great Artists, who are admittedly less useful than Engineers & Scientists. However, you'll be producing more great people overall; and those artists can light-bulb some techs, and you can use up at lest two per game starting golden ages.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hammam, Ball Court, Sac. Alter/Zig/Ikhanda come to mind.

I'll give the nod to the Sac. Alter. The faster whip/draft cycles, especially early whipping, is so ridiculously powerful. Eternal whipping...its the most powerful early production boost from a UB.

Edit: I'm eternally confused why everyone gushes over the dike. It's ok, certainly useful, but not exactly spectacular. You don't usually work water tiles unless you run out of good land tiles to work, of they're seafood. It's certainly useful, but it's a) map situational and b) later than many quite powerful early UBs. In your crappier cities it might give you like +10 hammers MAYBE, but the production still won't be spectacular. In your hammer-heavy factory/coal plant cities with high production, you're not going to be working many water tiles. Maybe +1-4 hammers before multipliers. Good, but BETTER than being able to whip frequently or having tools that help the empire gain strength early? The one city that gets dike/moai will look pretty sound though. It still doesn't explain why this UB always seems to get as much favoritism as the roman UU. It's nowhere near better by as much.