Do you predominately play with the 4UC modmod?

[pineappledan]

I think the way forward is a compromise which makes no one happy: keep it as a modmod, but with full DLL integration

 

[CppMaster]

What does full DLL integration mean?

 

[Tekamthi]

I'm not sure how this became about integrating 4UC into the core or not. I only saw it as a poll about if I played with it or without it. It was never about integration

a few discussions popped up on the early proposals about whether we should, or at least if it was within the spirit of congress, to vote with MUC in mind, and it was proposed that most vp players are muc players. This poll sprung up to test that hypothesis afaik.

Integration naturally follows from this topic, but the more interesting question remains, is it fair to vote in Congress for a desired modmod outcome? There's no rule against it of course, and no way to enforce it as such, but I think a few of us still wonder on this point

 

[looorg]

Once again... The point of the integration is maintanance and balancing as a whole through VP Congress. Can't really do that for a modmod.

Sure. I understand that aspect of it. But it wasn't about what the poll was about when it started was it? Also I might have missed it but what does Dan want? In the end it's all that matters really. Does he want it integrated into the core or not? So far I think he has been doing a splendid job. But if he wants help or he wants others to take over then it becomes another question in that regard. I make a choice about the balancing and such when I run the modmod, I think it's working fine as it is. But then I'm only one voice.

 

[pineappledan]

Make all the unique abilities that are coded in 4UC things that are done by the main mod. That would improve performance and allow people to expose them to AI decision making.

It’s more than half of the work that is entailed in integration, but wouldn’t cause the memory issues that @Recursive is citing.

In essence what I am suggesting is a massive co-opting of main mod dev resources to make a modmod better

 

[Tekamthi]

Make all the unique abilities that are coded in 4UC things that are done by the main mod

As much as possible, please make them accessible via the promo table -- mixing and matching promo abilities is one the best tools for modmodders to create interesting in game effects

 

[CppMaster]

Sure. I understand that aspect of it. But it wasn't about what the poll was about when it started was it? Also I might have missed it but what does Dan want? In the end it's all that matters really. Does he want it integrated into the core or not? So far I think he has been doing a splendid job. But if he wants help or he wants others to take over then it becomes another question in that regard. I make a choice about the balancing and such when I run the modmod, I think it's working fine as it is. But then I'm only one voice.

Yes. I do. Or something like it.

The 4UC project was designed and initially implemented by a group of people. I only designed and implemented about 1/3rd of the 43 civs' extra components. It was never my intention to be caught holding the bag.

That doesn't mean I won't have opinions on it if I relinquish total creative control, and that the mod hasn't come to reflect my own design preferences in obvious ways. I don't think it's in the best interest of the mod, the community, or myself if I am expected to maintain the 4UC mod by myself in perpetuity.

 

[Tekamthi]

I'm also concerned about additional memory consumption by the mod's art assets. Will it be compatible with the 43 civ version in the late game, or will it crash constantly?

This is a good question, I'm always surprised tbh that 43-civ remains playable in late game -- but it generally does. If a game is gonna have a fatal, cannot-progress-beyond-crash moment, it usually appears by mid-game, I don't think I've ever had such a fatality in late game. That said, even with no crash, I usually abandon or conclude the game before the later eras, maybe only 10-20% of games get to that stage

It does CTD occasionally, which I believe is from memory overruns, as usually you can just reload and progress beyond it as if it never happened. I have even had some playable late games on the extra huge map sizes. I never run EUI with 43-civ, and usually turn off all the map icons as the game progresses, or just toggle them on momentarily to see what I need then off again -- maybe just placebo but these steps seem to markedly increase stability in 43-civ

 

[azum4roll]

Don't forget some DLL-integrated functions aren't AI-trained as well, more commonly if they aren't currently used by VP.

 

[CppMaster]

Make all the unique abilities that are coded in 4UC things that are done by the main mod. That would improve performance and allow people to expose them to AI decision making.

It’s more than half of the work that is entailed in integration, but wouldn’t cause the memory issues that @Recursive is citing.

In essence what I am suggesting is a massive co-opting of main mod dev resources to make a modmod better

@Recursive would DLL integration need supermajority vote?

 

[pineappledan]

It would not. It would just be a large batch of things that are normally done through GitHub feature request tickets (and then never addressed )

 

[Tekamthi]

normally done through GitHub feature request tickets (and then never addressed )

Think of them like lottery tickets

 

[CppMaster]

It would not. It would just be a large batch of things that are normally done through GitHub feature request tickets (and then never addressed )

Ok then! I imagine that later it'd more feasible to intergrate the whole modmod, correct?

 

[pineappledan]

Sure. I understand that aspect of it. But it wasn't about what the poll was about when it started was

The poll is still just about asking players if they use 4UC or not. The speculation about possible integration is a tangent.

 

[Stalker0]

a few discussions popped up on the early proposals about whether we should, or at least if it was within the spirit of congress, to vote with MUC in mind, and it was proposed that most vp players are muc players. This poll sprung up to test that hypothesis afaik.

Integration naturally follows from this topic, but the more interesting question remains, is it fair to vote in Congress for a desired modmod outcome? There's no rule against it of course, and no way to enforce it as such, but I think a few of us still wonder on this point

So to be clear, this poll was purely a curiosity of mine, with no greater agenda. However the poll has shown a high popularity for the modmod, which has generated excitement and various ideas about integration.

All of that is fine, but the poll is not about integration, and will NOT be used to determine if we should integrate. If we got to that point it would be a formal Congress activity, not a side poll

 

[Recursive]

I think the way forward is a compromise which makes no one happy: keep it as a modmod, but with full DLL integration

Make all the unique abilities that are coded in 4UC things that are done by the main mod. That would improve performance and allow people to expose them to AI decision making.

It’s more than half of the work that is entailed in integration, but wouldn’t cause the memory issues that @Recursive is citing.

In essence what I am suggesting is a massive co-opting of main mod dev resources to make a modmod better

Given that it's a mod used by a significant portion of the player base (and a 2:1 majority of the respondents) it's not an idea I'm opposed to, and it does seem like the most equitable path forward, particularly given how long DLL integration would take. I'm not sure who'd be willing to do the work if it wasn't a part of core VP, though.

 

[pineappledan]

Well the good thing about doing integration that way is it can be done at whatever pace people are able and willing to give it. One ability at a time.

 

[jarcast2]

Well the good thing about doing integration that way is it can be done at whatever pace people are able and willing to give it. One ability at a time.

Also it can be preferable compared to full integration as it doesn't remove the flexible ability to disable the mod and play without it, which matters for roughly 1/3 of VP players (as per this poll).

 

[Hawawaa]

Moar numbers-

https://www.reddit.com/r/civvoxpopuli/comments/1byipdn/do_you_predominately_play_with_the_4uc_modmod

Voting looks like same ratio so far.

 

[Stalker0]

Moar numbers-

https://www.reddit.com/r/civvoxpopuli/comments/1byipdn/do_you_predominately_play_with_the_4uc_modmod

Voting looks like same ratio so far.

just noing that the reddit poll sadly is not the same as the CFC poll. CFC just asks if your using 4UC alot, the reddit poll straight up asks if people want to integrate it.