Polynesia/Hawaii?

[sss64sss]

So, I'm a bit curious. I won't lie, I'm not the most educated on Polynesian history or islander history in general, save for what I learned about Hawaii for a project once. But still, I found what I learned about Hawaii fascinating, and Polynesia was a favorite of mine in Civ5, even if they were kind of a blob civ. So that being said, I feel a Pacific islander civ would be a good choice for an expansion.

Preferably a more specific civ than just Polynesia as a whole, but in that case, which would work best? I assumed that Hawaii would be the most obvious choice, but again, there the only one I've researched. I know there's also the Maori, Tonga, Samoa, Tahiti, etc.

 

[Atlas627]

Personally, I thought the Polynesian Civ was an excellent design choice. Each of the individual cultures could definitely not be made into a whole official Civ, but it is good to represent them in some way.

The Moai made for a great improvement, both gameplay and flavor-wise.

The Maori are a good way to represent more well-known indigenous cultures.

Kamehameha is the most well-known leader and was supposedly pretty competent.

Tonga, Samoa, and Tahiti were the other cultures represented in the scenario, right? Find some way to implement them more into the main Civ and you've represented all of the most famous aspects of Polynesia. You could even give them a boost to the Resort mechanic, since no other Civ seems like a good candidate for it.

 

[MAHRana]

I loved them in Civ V, I want them back in someway in Civ VI

 

[j51]

I'm agreeing with all that' been said. It seems that Norway took their early oceangoing ability, but I see no reason why that can't be shared. (Polynesia's would come online earlier anyway.)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm agreeing with all that' been said. It seems that Norway took their early oceangoing ability, but I see no reason why that can't be shared. (Polynesia's would come online earlier anyway.)

You could expand on it...perhaps Polynesian scouts can reveal terrain(not units, etc.ie still under fog of war) 5-6 tiles away at all times..so they map things out Very quickly even on land.

..so
massive mapping scouts (UU)

ocean travel from turn 1 (UA)

some bonus to island settlement/coastal cities (perhaps coastal cities can place "flat land" districts on land adjacent coastal tiles...or just a boost to housing/food from water tiles)..Leader UA (depends on Leader)

bonus to coastal tourism*(U infra)


actually, looking at the rapid expansion over large territory... a different idea
UU..."Island setter"... naval unit that can found a "0 pop city" on an adjacent land tile..becomes a normal city after 20 turns..cheaper than regular settler, but is a naval unit
UA...ocean travel turn 1, units map terrain 4-6 hexes away (not vision, still in fog of war), bonuses for atolls+water resources
UI..special resort (extra bonuses for being coastal)

LUA...depends on the specific civ the leaders are from..
if Tonga (something to do with keeping the land with the people...bonuses for farms, etc. adjacent to districts?)
if Tahiti (something to do with uniting the islands, midgame amphibious military bonus...Or bonus for villages/barb camps)
if Hawaii (bonus for plantations/luxury resources...possibly more bonus if foreign trade)
if Maori (ala musket wars...can receive a military unit tech..not Eureka, but full tech, you cannot currently research upon trading with a civ with that unit)
if Samoa (internal? naval? trade bonuses)

 

[Depravo]

There was a lot to like about the Polynesian civ, but I always turned it off because it ruined the exploration game if you're playing on anything other than Pangaea.


/
What's that on the horizon? Could it be a fascinating new continent full of undiscovered civilisations, wonders and tribes?


/
Cap'n, the Polynesians are on this map. It's been done and everything of value has been taken.

 

[Krajzen]

To be honest I think Polynesia is very unlikely to return (especially in united form, although I wouldn't expect smaller islands too) for following reasons:
1) Its main and singature ability has been essentially taken by Denmark in almost exactly same form (civ unique ability, well requires 2 techs), and if there is one thing I would always give to Polynesian incarnations would be this ability.
2) Polynesia iirc had always been one of the least popular civs in c5, rated as one of the worst civs in all kinds of elimination/poll threads (maori warrior iirc was rated as the worst unit in game ), generally having very few fans, which matters a lot when there are a lot of fan-popular requested new civs and
3) Polynesia is neither essential nor cohesive civ at all - it doesn't even make sense, being a fictional federtion of tiny isolated cultures that never contacted each other, and also
4) Firaxis tries to not repeat leaders and uniques as far as it can in civ6. Of 20 civs barely three have the same leaders as civ5 and ten leaders never appeared in the entire series before. So, Polynesia shouldn't have Kamehameha, Maori warriors and Moai. The problems: moai are the only thing eastern island is famous for, kamehameha is the only king of hawaii qualifiable for civ scale and maoris are the only really distinctive polynesian military unit. And resources to take from are extremely poor because
5) I'm all for inclusiveness but let's be honest, historically Pacific ocean area always had extremely small population and terrible conditions to build civilization, so its history is... extraordinarily poor. Back in time I was actually researching this subject and it is really hard to find something other on the subject than small tribal kingdoms with no writing systems. It's as far-fetched as making civ from Siberian tribes: possible, but you would probably had much beter gameplay material from some urban empire.

 

[IgorS]

Polynesia - no.
Hawaii - yes.

 

[MAHRana]

Polynesia was one of my favorite Civ V civs and an entity similar to them should be included imho because it plays on one of the games main features – early exploration. Denmark shouldn't relegate them (think about it they're worlds apart, even though they are both seafaring). The Polynesian culture is strong enough to be included, they grew crops (taro, bananas, breadfruit in contrast to rice, corn and wheat cultivated throughout the rest of the world). A writing system was found in the Easter Island, and they spoke languages of varying relations with each other. We say that they weren't unified tho many of their island communities stemmed from each other and they were ingenious enough to spread themselves and their culture across major distances. From Hawaii to Easter Island to New Zealand (not even including the other seafaring cultures in Guinea all the way to Madagascar, and there's evidence of an attempt of agriculture of their crops in Australia).
Many civs admittedly are a sort of mishmash ("Indonesia", "Celts", "India") so i don't see a major issue of following the trend unless we decide to stop the trend altogether (would sort many issues out).
They gave a great feeling to Civ V and a unique experience, a depth to the early game which i will miss if they aren't included.

 

[IgorS]

Expanding on my short post earlier, I want to say I am strongly against a Polynesia civ, and I truly cannot understand how people keep saying that Native America from Civ IV was a stupid blob civ, but Polynesia is fine. It is the same thing. And besides, there is no need for a Polynesia civ when Hawaii alone can be made into a civ with its own unique elements.

 

[Zaarin]

A writing system was found in the Easter Island

Rongorongo has not been confirmed to be true writing, and most scholars believe it was a form of proto-writing, like Inca quipu or early Pre-Sumerian cuneiform glyphs.

Expanding on my short post earlier, I want to say I am strongly against a Polynesia civ, and I truly cannot understand how people keep saying that Native America from Civ IV was a stupid blob civ, but Polynesia is fine. It is the same thing. And besides, there is no need for a Polynesia civ when Hawaii alone can be made into a civ with its own unique elements.

To be fair, a Polynesia blob civ is not nearly as egregious as a Native American blob civ. For one thing, the Polynesian peoples are all fairly closely related, whereas the Native American civ was tossing together hundreds of disparate peoples with unrelated languages and unrelated cultures. For another, there are individual Native American civs who stand out as clearly worthy of inclusion; it's much more difficult to say any individual Polynesian culture is worthy of inclusion (the standouts probably being Hawai'i and the Māori). I think Polynesia is best thought of as a one-off, like the Shoshone, rather than being replaced by a more specific Polynesian civ.

 

[Loaf Warden]

To be fair, a Polynesia blob civ is not nearly as egregious as a Native American blob civ. For one thing, the Polynesian peoples are all fairly closely related, whereas the Native American civ was tossing together hundreds of disparate peoples with unrelated languages and unrelated cultures. For another, there are individual Native American civs who stand out as clearly worthy of inclusion; it's much more difficult to say any individual Polynesian culture is worthy of inclusion (the standouts probably being Hawai'i and the Māori).

Exactly. As blobs go, Polynesia is more like the Celts than like Native America. Each group of Polynesians was different from the others, but they were culturally and linguistically related enough that one can meaningfully speak of "Polynesian civilization" as a general thing. To speak of "Native American civilization" is casting the net too wide, and assumes more similarities than have ever really existed. Kind of like those people who claim to be into "Asian culture", when what they really mean is they find China or Japan interesting and aren't really aware enough that Mongolia, Laos, and Brunei are all equally Asian and have very little to do with each other.

I would be neither surprised nor disappointed if they made a Hawaii civ or a Maori civ for Civ VI instead of doing the Polynesian blob again. I also wouldn't be disappointed if they just did Polynesia again, because I think it's a fair way to include elements that otherwise would not appear. The Moai UI was neat, but it's not like there's going to be a full Easter Island civ. Inclusionist though I am, even I have to acknowledge that some potential civs just don't have enough information available to develop a full civ from. (Apart from anything else, a civ needs a full city list.) And to make a Hawaiian or Maori civ and give them the Moai just to include it would be just plain wrong. It would be like giving the Shoshone totem poles.

 

[Depravo]

We'll have to make do with Colossal Heads. I plan to spam them all over the map.

 

[IgorS]

The Moai should simply become a world wonder. Why do they have to be a unique element for a civ?

 

[IgorS]

For another, there are individual Native American civs who stand out as clearly worthy of inclusion; it's much more difficult to say any individual Polynesian culture is worthy of inclusion (the standouts probably being Hawai'i and the Māori).

If Hawaii and the Maori are standouts, that means there actually are Polynesian civs worthy of inclusion.
I am not saying they should give us many Polynesian civs, I am just saying one would be enough, just don't make that Polynesian blob from Civ V again. And I don't want the Celts either.

 

[TPangolin]

To anyone that says that there is nowhere near enough material in each of the Polynesian civs needs to see how More Civs pulled off the Polynesia Civ Split Pack. If a bunch of unpaid modders can create content that would otherwise seamlessly fit into the base game if it had a 3D Firaxian leader, then surely Firaxis can come up with a design that doesn't straight up combine disperate peoples unique enough in their own right.

More Civs even managed to pull off a fully fleshed Rapa Nui civ with an extremely high level of artistic integrity and historical justification. Imagine what Firaxis could do with the Maori with enough motivation...

Polynesia Civ Split Pack on the Steam Workshop

 

[Zaarin]

If Hawaii and the Maori are standouts, that means there actually are Polynesian civs worthy of inclusion.
I am not saying they should give us many Polynesian civs, I am just saying one would be enough, just don't make that Polynesian blob from Civ V again. And I don't want the Celts either.

I'd be more comfortable with a Celt blob if it didn't involve a Briton queen with dreads speaking Welsh swinging a gladius wearing a great kilt ruling from Edinburgh with Pictish warriors, ceilidh halls, and stereotypical tree-worship. But I'd personally prefer to see Gaul.

 

[IgorS]

To anyone that says that there is nowhere near enough material in each of the Polynesian civs needs to see how More Civs pulled off the Polynesia Civ Split Pack. If a bunch of unpaid modders can create content that would otherwise seamlessly fit into the base game if it had a 3D Firaxian leader, then surely Firaxis can come up with a design that doesn't straight up combine disperate peoples unique enough in their own right.

More Civs even managed to pull off a fully fleshed Rapa Nui civ with an extremely high level of artistic integrity and historical justification. Imagine what Firaxis could do with the Maori with enough motivation...

Polynesia Civ Split Pack on the Steam Workshop

My point exactly!

 

[IgorS]

I'd be more comfortable with a Celt blob if it didn't involve a Briton queen with dreads speaking Welsh swinging a gladius wearing a great kilt ruling from Edinburgh with Pictish warriors, ceilidh halls, and stereotypical tree-worship. But I'd personally prefer to see Gaul.

Oh, yeah, I facepalmed when I saw the Civ V version of the Celts. Worst Celts in any Civ game. Even worse than Civ II's Celts.

 

[Depravo]

Oh, yeah, I facepalmed when I saw the Civ V version of the Celts. Worst Celts in any Civ game. Even worse than Civ II's Celts.

It's been about 15 years since I played, what sucked about the Celts in Civ 2?

Civ 5's depiction was atrocious. Playing AS them was kinda fun, because they had interesting, though rather weak powers, but that leader screen... Jesus. I wouldn't be surprised if the historic Boudicca never saw a hill above 300 feet in her life.