[NFP] Portugal Reveal Video Discussion

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I just listened to Sean Bean.

"Jalau the third"

He actually managed to invent a new wrong way of saying it.

I will begin to think Sean Bean is actively reading CivFanatics forum and purposefully butcher the names just to see our reactions.

At least, in French, they went the simplest road: they translated the name in "Jean III" (which would be the same as calling João III as John III in English)

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I just listened to Sean Bean.

"Jalau the third"

I will gladly take that over some of the other ways he could have mispronounced it.

"Jo-a-oh the third"

"Juwu the third"

"Joe-ow the third"

And those are just the ones off the top of my head. I don't know how and I don't know why but I have full confidence that he could have mispronounced it to somehow rhyme with orange. Sean Bean isn't a voice actor- he's a professional language butcherer.

 

[Potworny]

owo the third, you stand firm in your beliefs and guide others to them

By the way, Rosetta, or whatever mod that changes city names seems not to have been updated yet, or it hadn't been when I started my Portugal playthrough. Mogadishu showed up as Lisboa, and I played my game as Portugal with Evora as my capital. It's a fun gimmick, at least, I guess

 

[Abaxial]

It's the Irish name of Ireland.

Let me quote from the Irish constitution (as close as I can from memory):

"The name of the country shall be the Republic of Ireland, or, in Irish, Eire".

 

[AsH2]

Whose on third?

 

[Abaxial]

Yeah, I'm definitely not doing any of that seeing as I'm working on my master's in history at an American university.

You know, you can actually read works of history for pleasure. I always think that a well-written history is like a good novel with the added advantage that it is actually true.

 

[SeelingCat]

owo the third, you stand firm in your beliefs and guide others to them

By the way, Rosetta, or whatever mod that changes city names seems not to have been updated yet, or it hadn't been when I started my Portugal playthrough. Mogadishu showed up as Lisboa, and I played my game as Portugal with Evora as my capital. It's a fun gimmick, at least, I guess

I updated it last night and thought I double-checked that Mogadishu was working properly, but it's possible I goofed somewhere - or that Steam didn't download the update for you

 

[Zaarin]

You know, you can actually read works of history for pleasure. I always think that a well-written history is like a good novel with the added advantage that it is actually true.

Um...strange non-sequitur, but okay. In what way does this fit into the previous conversation in which you suggested I should read more colonial history and I replied (albeit sarcastically) that I already am? I'm not sure where you'd even draw any inference about what I read for pleasure, but I think it's safe to assume that I do read history as well as fiction for pleasure (though well-written history is exceedingly rare because it's hard to find a historian who can write decently never mind well, it seems...).

Also your final statement is deeply flawed. All good fiction is true. "True" and "factual" are not the same.

 

[God of Kings]

I will begin to think Sean Bean is actively reading CivFanatics forum and purposefully butcher the names just to see our reactions.

At least, in French, they went the simplest road: they translated the name in "Jean III" (which would be the same as calling João III as John III in English)

The English Wikipedia article for the Portuguese leader is John III of Portugal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_III_of_Portugal

Thus, there are two Johns in Civ VI (the other being John Curtin of Australia).

 

[SeelingCat]

Thus, there are two Johns in Civ VI (the other being John Curtin of Australia).

There's also Peter/Pedro as well

 

[PhoenicianGold]

There's also Peter/Pedro as well

I'm still hoping for Simon/Simeon.

 

[nunor]

owo the third, you stand firm in your beliefs and guide others to them

By the way, Rosetta, or whatever mod that changes city names seems not to have been updated yet, or it hadn't been when I started my Portugal playthrough. Mogadishu showed up as Lisboa, and I played my game as Portugal with Evora as my capital. It's a fun gimmick, at least, I guess

And not historically inaccurate, since João III spent a lot of time in Évora. It was practically Portugal's second capital.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

There's also Peter/Pedro as well

It's Pierre II/Pierre le Grand in French for example

 

[Menocchio]

I'm still hoping for Simon/Simeon.

The Good Lord help us if they choose to transliterate "Семён" as, well...

 

[Kimiimaro]

The Good Lord help us if they choose to transliterate "Семён" as, well...

EU4 did exactly that in Russian leader name list, and yes, it did spawn an amount of... Ehm... Interesting posts on the game's reddit page

 

[Abaxial]

Um...strange non-sequitur, but okay. In what way does this fit into the previous conversation in which you suggested I should read more colonial history and I replied (albeit sarcastically) that I already am? I'm not sure where you'd even draw any inference about what I read for pleasure, but I think it's safe to assume that I do read history as well as fiction for pleasure (though well-written history is exceedingly rare because it's hard to find a historian who can write decently never mind well, it seems...).

Also your final statement is deeply flawed. All good fiction is true. "True" and "factual" are not the same.

You misunderstand me - I meant that if you did read more about the history of colonisation (a more accurate phrase), particularly of Asia, you would find the word "factory" used a great deal. I'm sorry if you have been unlucky in finding historians who can write well. I seem to have been more fortunate.

As to your last point, unless you want to go deeply into matters philosophical, it's mere semantics. "True" is often used to mean factual.

 

[Menocchio]

You misunderstand me - I meant that if you did read more about the history of colonisation (a more accurate phrase), particularly of Asia, you would find the word "factory" used a great deal. I'm sorry if you have been unlucky in finding historians who can write well. I seem to have been more fortunate.

As to your last point, unless you want to go deeply into matters philosophical, it's mere semantics. "True" is often used to mean factual.

This is objectively incorrect, purely looking at data. You can search databases of academic publications in English on colonial trading posts - as I just did - and find that the term "factory" is almost exclusively used for industrial-era factories in the present English sense. This has evidently been the case for more than 40 years, across the literature. "Trading post" or similar terms are used instead, regardless of context, excepting when non-English words are used as historical signifiers, such as feitoria.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This is objectively incorrect, purely looking at data. You can search databases of academic publications in English on colonial trading posts - as I just did - and find that the term "factory" is almost exclusively used for industrial-era factories in the present English sense. This has evidently been the case for more than 40 years, across the literature. "Trading post" or similar terms are used instead, regardless of context, excepting when non-English words are used as historical signifiers, such as feitoria.

I feel like both sides of the argument are kind of correct in some way. It seems that the common name for factory before the Industrial Era were used for these sort of places, as even the Dutch had established similar places called "factorij", and they were called factories in North America too by the Hudson Bay Company.

Of course modern day English has changed the name of these buildings as trading post, which obviously that's what the Feitoria were, changing the way the word factory is used.

Either way I think this conversation started as is a feitoria appropriate for a civ like Portugal, and I believe it is no matter if you call it a factory or trading post.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I will gladly take that over some of the other ways he could have mispronounced it.

"Jo-a-oh the third"

"Juwu the third"

"Joe-ow the third"

And those are just the ones off the top of my head. I don't know how and I don't know why but I have full confidence that he could have mispronounced it to somehow rhyme with orange. Sean Bean isn't a voice actor- he's a professional language butcherer.

UWU the Third.

 

[Zaarin]

I meant that if you did read more about the history of colonisation (a more accurate phrase), particularly of Asia, you would find the word "factory" used a great deal.

A) As I said, I have indeed had the misfortune of reading a great deal of colonial history. It's not a particularly interesting topic, but it's what American universities teach so that's life. 2) As Menocchio said, "factory" in the sense of colonial factory is not in fact used a great deal in modern scholarly literature, at least not as far as I can tell. I'm familiar with the term, of course, but it's by no means standard usage.

As to your last point, unless you want to go deeply into matters philosophical, it's mere semantics. "True" is often used to mean factual.

Considering this discussion started with your criticizing my semantics... But I'd argue it's not mere semantics though I would agree it's philosophical. However, I'd suggest that learning the distinction between what is true and what is fact goes a long way towards escaping the oversimplification of the world that is the bread-and-butter of Western education. At any rate, perhaps a simpler rebuttal would have been to point out that a great deal of non-fiction isn't.